Need input/ideas for new home theater

[jbl246]

Hi All,

Just wanted to start of by saying that my knowledge of audio systems that I thought to be above average has now dropped significantly since I started poking around the forums here for the last 6 months. If I was to tell somebody that now I would put a [bs] on it. To say the least, I am impressed. The knowledge that is present here and the fact that the members take the time to help a person, such as myself, who is far from being an expert in the audio world is outstanding. Kudos to you all!! I do love the technical aspect of it all but, wow, it can become foreign to me more often then not. Now here is where I fall short.....trying to explain what I know or don't know. I'm thinking that I should just ask and keep on asking when I hear myself going "huh".

Anyway, enough tripe.......

I have $4500 at my disposal and I'm in need of advice on a home theater system. This amount will be for the following: AV receiver, home theater speaker system be it 5.1 or 7.1, a Blue Ray Player and all acoutramounts. I will need a receiver with "zones" as I will need two small speakers for a small patio and a couple of small speakers for the kitchen. I would prefer this to an external switch if possible. Those speakers need not be included in the $4500 . The theater system will be used for music as well as movies with a 50/50 split. The room for the surround system is 20' x 35' with a saltillo tile floor. I would love to give more details but I am unsure of what other details would be useful. At the end of the day I'm looking for who likes what and why . Personally, I'm a Denon fan but I've heard some "things" about other brands or I should say brands that advertise "875w 7.1 ch home theater network receiver". I do know its about personal preference but just looking to broaden my perspectives. Every now and then I try to remove the blinders.

Thanks in advance for your input and advice.

Jason

Oh ya, through all that I have read in these forums can somebody tell me what the problem is with Klipsch sub-woofers? Maybe not problem but it seems that the general consensus is that of a POS. I have a 12d and have been more then satisfied with it yet I have never done a side by side comparison. Am I missing something.

[Youthman]

Welcome to the forums. You are correct, this is a great community with a wealth of knowledge.

First of all, that is a huge room to fill so you will likely need pretty beefy speakers to fill that size room. If you buy new, you will get much less for your money and likely have to buy much smaller, less capable speakers.

You might want to look at the differences between Reference and Heritage series. Since you listen to 1/2 music, Heritage is known for great 3-way sound. They tend to be much wider and "older" looking. Some like that, others prefer the more modern look of the Reference or Icon Series.

My advice with the 5.1 vs 7.1 is start off with a solid 5.1 and add 7.1 down the road when funds are available. If you have to cut corners on gear so you can have enough funds to buy 2 additional speakers, to me, it's not worth it. A proper 5.1 will sound better than a lesser quality 7.1.

One thing to realize too is that most receivers, althought they claim 130w x 7, many turn out to be 55w x 7 (speaking of my own Yamaha receiver). Asking a receiver to drive 7 speakers is quite a feat. Get a receiver with pre-outs so down the road, you can add an amp if you need to help relieve the receiver of it's amplification duties.

I don't think the general consensus that Klipsch subs are POS (with the exception of the Promedia 2.1 system), it's just that there are other brands that give you much better value for the same or better performance.

Feel free to ask all the questions you want.

[StephenM]

through all that I have read in these forums can somebody tell me what the problem is with Klipsch sub-woofers? Maybe not problem but it seems that the general consensus is that of a POS.

Inflated MSRP. In terms of raw output capabilities (based on the max acoustic output spec), the $1600 SW-311 is more comparable to the $500 Emotiva Ultra 12 than a $1200 SVS SB13-Plus or the (much more unfair comaprison) $1350 SVS PB12-Plus.

Also quick edit: for receivers, I'd highly recommend looking at accessories4less.com. They are authorized dealers of Onkyo and Marantz for refurbs which can net you some pretty good deals.

[CECAA850]

through all that I have read in these forums can somebody tell me what the problem is with Klipsch sub-woofers? Maybe not problem but it seems that the general consensus is that of a POS.

Inflated MSRP. In terms of raw output capabilities (based on the max acoustic output spec), the $1600 SW-311 is more comparable to the $500 Emotiva Ultra 12 than a $1200 SVS SB13-Plus or the (much more unfair comaprison) $1350 SVS PB12-Plus.

Also quick edit: for receivers, I'd highly recommend looking at accessories4less.com. They are authorized dealers of Onkyo and Marantz for refurbs which can net you some pretty good deals.

Failed amps..................

[CECAA850]

On the constructive side.....

For HT, put you money in a good center channel AND subwoofer. They can make or break the HT experience.

Cabling can bust your budget if you get carried away in hype. Check monoprice.com. Don't let the inexpensive prices fool you, they carry quality wire and connectors.

Don't be afraid of buying used speakers. There's not much that can go wrong with them and repairs (if needed) are relitively inexpensive compared to the speaker as a whole. You can save a ton of money that way.

[StephenM]

Failed amps..................

Perhaps, but not necessarily. Either way, the receivers are at factory refurbished up to spec and warranted by the manufacturer for one year. You can buy an additional extended warranty for up to 5 years if it suits you and still end up spending far less than retail.

[Youthman]

Failed amps..................

Perhaps, but not necessarily.

I believe CECAA850 was referring to the sub amps, not the amps in the receivers.

[StephenM]

I believe CECAA850 was referring to the sub amps, not the amps in the receivers.

I'm not sure what that would mean then? What would have failed?

[Ironsave]

I believe CECAA850 was referring to the sub amps, not the amps in the receivers.

I'm not sure what that would mean then? What would have failed?

Various Klipsch subs with Bash amps have had high failure rates.

(This includes the PC speaker amps; IE Promedia 5.1 Ultra).

The OP asked why people were down on Klipsch subs in general.

That would be why.

[StephenM]

Gotcha.

[CECAA850]

I believe CECAA850 was referring to the sub amps, not the amps in the receivers.

I'm not sure what that would mean then? What would have failed?

Sub-10's and Sub-12's are regularly "bashed" in the subwoofer section for failed amps. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[jbl246]

Amazing, only a few hours and I have much to think about. Outstanding!! Honestly, used was something I hadn't considered. There is on shop here in Abq that had quite a selection of used but the last time I was in there they had really scaled it down. We don't have much selection as far as shops go so I will peruse the for sale forums more. Great tip on the cable too, that is one easy to forget and the prices are outrageous. I have been on Audioholics on occasion and the one name that comes to mind from there is Blue Jeans cable. Any thoughts?

As far as a receiver Denon has always been my choice but those damn blinders. I have the 3806 and love it. My biggest problem with it has been the learning curve. I bought it in 07' and I am not surprised when I figure out something new on it. Then again the manual for it is written in Sand Scrit so I have to constantly brush up on my Sand Scritease before I break out that debacle.

I will look into the Heritage Line. I know nothing about it but awesome input about the music side of the speaker. Exactly the type of ideas I'm looking for.

This is what I needed, this all helps to build excitement into what can be a daunting task. So much so that you may end up in a Best Buy from the ball of confusion and end up walking out with the most bitchen Kraco ever for your car. I bet it will have over 1000 watts of power too!!

[jbl246]

Ok, is there any reason this site is bunching everything I write into one paragraph? I can't even believe I'm asking but I didn't type it as such.

[StephenM]

Ok, is there any reason this site is bunching everything I write into one paragraph? I can't even believe I'm asking but I didn't type it as such.

Depends on your browser; I found that Chrome did that to me. I believe paragraph tags <p> and </p> may help you.

[StephenM]

Great tip on the cable too, that is one easy to forget and the prices are outrageous. I have been on Audioholics on occasion and the one name that comes to mind from there is Blue Jeans cable. Any thoughts?

Just a regular speaker wire spool from Monoprice is sufficient. What gauge you need depends on the speakers you get and the length of your wiring runs.

[cornfedksboy]

Ok, is there any reason this site is bunching everything I write into one paragraph? I can't even believe I'm asking but I didn't type it as such.

If you are using a Mac it won't recognize the "enter" key. You have to type in <p> or something.

[cornfedksboy]

Great tip on the cable too, that is one easy to forget and the prices are outrageous. I have been on Audioholics on occasion and the one name that comes to mind from there is Blue Jeans cable. Any thoughts?

Just a regular speaker wire spool from Monoprice is sufficient. What gauge you need depends on the speakers you get and the length of your wiring runs.

Stephen is correct. That is far and away the cheapest way to go with high quality speakerwire. If you are looking for something with a little higher aesthetic appeal, I have heard that Blue Jeans are a great value. 10 gauge wire is difficult to work with (won't fit all banana plugs, difficult to wire into the terminals). You can be assured that 12 gauge is appropriate for any in home runs under 100 foot, but that's still really overkill. 14 gauge will give you the highest quality, lowest cost, easiest workability. There's a chart somewhere around here so you can calculate it, but I have some runs of 50 foot and I believe 16 gauge was acceptable.

[cornfedksboy]

I have the 3806 and love it.

If this is what you are currently using, I wouldn't buy a new receiver. I'd use this, hook up your new speakers and if it's not enough, buy an amp to hook up to it since it has the pre-outs for an external. It should have everything you need. If you go that route you will either save yourself some money or up your performance.

[StephenM]

If you are looking for something with a little higher aesthetic appeal, I have heard that Blue Jeans are a great value.

+1, would also recommend heartlandcables.com; for speaker wire they exclusively use Canare 4S11, and it's a little cheaper than the same cable from Blue Jeans.

Of course the only reason I personally went that route is because I got my speakers used and they didn't come with jumpers. I made jumpers out of speaker wire, and I also made some bi-wire cables, but both looked stupid/bush league, so I ponied up for something a little more pleasing to the eye.

[cornfedksboy]

a Blue Ray Player

I'm using a higher end LG BRD (retail around $300.00) and am quite happy with it. If you want a great BRD for relatively little money, consider an Oppo. They retail right at $500.00. If you were planning on spending less, make sure you get all the features you want/need such as 3D capabilities, WiFi, HDMI 1.4. Not saying you DO want those, but if you do, you'll need to read up and make sure that it's there. Also, if you want to use this system to play music, getting one that has easily networks, hooks up to Apple AiRplay, has Pandora, and even an internal storage capability might be important.

The room for the surround system is 20' x 35' with a saltillo tile floor.

With a highly reflective floor, you'll want some money left over for room treatments. Some cool wife approved ways to do that are with an area rug, curtains/drapes, and canvas wall art.

The theater system will be used for music as well as movies with a 50/50 split. The room for the surround system is 20' x 35'

In what way do you listen to music? If you really like the sound of 2 channel music, I'd HIGHLY recommend the Heritage line, something like a pair of used Cornwall IIs will run you about $1000.00 (about the price of two new RF-82 IIs). These are great speakers for music from what I've heard. They use a three-way cross-over so you get much better sound out of the mid-range than the reference series. Also, they will REALLY fill your large room. On the other hand, if you want to listen in 5 channel, the Reference series does great! The RC-62 and RC-64 fill in the mid-bass and makes the Reference tower act like a three-way speaker. With the sub turned on, it's basically a four way cross-over that will give exceptional detail across the entire audible frequency. If you want to go Reference, You could get some RF-7 IIs, an RC-64 II, and two RS-62 IIs either gently used or B-Stock for $3000-3500.00, maybe less. Something to think about.

Oh ya, through all that I have read in these forums can somebody tell me what the problem is with Klipsch sub-woofers?

The only real issues have been with the cheaper Klipsch subs. I have two and am very pleased. On the other hand, as was mentioned above, They are relatively expensive. In a large room such as you have, you will need a good sub! Plan on budgeting $500-1000.00 for that speaker.