Mallette Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, while it may be a few weeks as I have to finish my Frazier Patio rebuild project, but I've finally located a sub project that I am confident is within my KSA level. It's the Cinema F-20 from the AV Forum. I didn't see a reference to this anywhere in Klipschland. The build is quite straightforward and I think it's extraordinary the guy who designed it is making the plans...and excellent ones at that complete with 3D modeling, cut plan, and step by step...available for free. The measurements look excellent and comparable to the Tubas and other horn loaded subs around. Given the scarcity of time for such things and the speed at which I will go to try to get it right, it will be a while before I report, but I will document the project with pix as I go and release the story when it's complete. OTOH, as a pro photographer once sagely advised me...don't let anyone see your mistakes. [:#] Lilmike's Cinema F-20 Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Can't wait to see your progress. Have you ordered your driver yet? What do you think you'll use for amplification? Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 the Dayton RSS 390 HF is on sale for $150 - Probably driver As to amp, I'd like to give the BASH 300 another try, as the reviews seem to favor bang for the buck on it. OTOH, I have a dead one and I noted when it happened that it's happened to others as well. Mine went into protection every day or so and I could never figure out why as there were no shorts. Eventually, it went TU. There's a reasonable Dayton as well. I'm going to build first, then order the goodies when I am in view of completion. The orginator indicated total build time was 10 hours or so over a weekend. Rather doubt I'll be anything like that quick as I am a novice at this and will have to go slow. However, I have decent tools and his instructions appear excellent. Looking forward to hearing the Virgil Fox LPs with this...amongst other things. His T6 design looks like a great one for music and when space is an issue, and only a little more compllicated. If this one goes well, I may have a go at that one just for grins. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Well, I just ordere the Dayton 240 plate amp. Carl's post caused me to take a look at PE to check out a couple of things. The Dayton was on sale for 98.00 through Wednesday so i thought I should pop on it. I've an old Pinnacle sub I can use it into until the project. That's the one the BASH died in. I've no reason to suspect the driver in there, though if this one goes into protection I am not going to push it... 98 clams delivered is a heckuva deal. Dave PS - As i read the 32 pages of commentary since the F20 thread was started last April, I find Dr Who lurking in there...nice to see a familiar face since I don't get out much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Were the MFW 15 drivers not available anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Were the MFW 15 drivers not available anymore? Haven't checked on a driver yet. Later in the thread he mentions a Dayton he thinks will work as well. I'll look at the recommendations then go with price/performance. These guys are GOOD, and the thread is at list a civilized, if not more so, than the Klipsch Klan. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superedge88 Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Judging from a recent subwoofer comparison on avs forum the f-20 scored pretty low in comparison to other subs. I've not listened to one personally, I do love my tht. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 Judging from a recent subwoofer comparison on avs forum the f-20 scored pretty low in comparison to other subs. I've not listened to one personally, I do love my tht. Read that. Sounded like there was an issue and it did not match either the measurements or others experience. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Missed that test; strange indeed. Two F20 is what I would build now if I needed a sub. Easier build than the THT and easier room placement. Will you be using any EQ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Will you be using any EQ That's something I'll need to query Lilmike or others about. I thought that was pretty well controlled by the plate amp controls, but there seemed to be considerable discussion I couldn't really follow. My goal isn't thumpa, thumpa, but simply augmentation as transparently as possible of the lowest piano strings and organ pipes. I know what these sound like so I'll know pretty quick whether anything needs attention...but may not know precisely what to do about it. In any event, should be fairly easy for the minimal woodworking skills I have and nothing to lose but a couple of sheets of plywood (assuming I keep my pinkies clear of the table saw...). I might proceed to the table tuba if I do this reasonably well. It isn't much further up the skill ladder. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 subscribed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Two F20 is what I would build now if I needed a sub. Gotta ask, as I noted others in the AV Forum with up to 4 of these. What is the point? Lilmike measured 110db from one in free air. I cannot imagine why one would need, or want more, unless you are trying to damage your foundation or kill rats. [] Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Here is a link to the AV Forum Cinema F-20 thread. My understanding is that while this post was from gen 1, Lilmike has updated the plans several times since with modifications so these are the latest. You have to register to download, but that's pretty easy. All the measured curves and such are here as well. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Two F20 is what I would build now if I needed a sub. Gotta ask, as I noted others in the AV Forum with up to 4 of these. What is the point? Lilmike measured 110db from one in free air. I cannot imagine why one would need, or want more, unless you are trying to damage your foundation or kill rats. Dave MK had four of them. Anyone else? He's never satisfied! [6] I'd want two subs just because of EQ. My room isn't done yet (no dropped ceiling yet) but my in-room response is has huge problems. If I didn't need any EQ, then 30 watts would be all I needed in one THT. But the room sucks and I have up to 13 dB of EQ gain at some frequencies that eat up all my headroom. It sounds incredible mind you, but I hope that the dropped ceiling and future bass traps will help tame the room a bit so i can lessen the EQ and gain some headroom. Otherwise I see a second THT down the road to get 6 dB back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Pete, I've read that when EQ'ing to only EQ the peaks. Trying to boost a null is virtually impossible due to the fact that nulls are either cancellation artifacts or issues witht he room itself. All you do is eat up amp headroom with little SPL gain. Pulling peaks down saves amp power and evens response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yeah, there's truth to that, but the frequency response responded from the EQ. It might not the case with complete nulls. In any case, I need to finish the ceiling, measure, see if I need bass traps, measure.It should get better, and then I'd be more than happy with one sub. It really does sound incredible and I would never go back to a small ported sub. But I want to settle my screen issue before I do the ceiling; see http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/146406.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well, while it may be a few weeks as I have to finish my Frazier Patio rebuild project, but I've finally located a sub project that I am confident is within my KSA level. It's the Cinema F-20 from the AV Forum. it's been a couple weeks. get started yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 No. I'll put the paddles to this thread when it actually happens. Best case is almost certainly after the holidays. Further, I've been considering getting to work on my old reed organ restoration project. It has marvy possiblities but needs complete bellows rebuild, cleaning, and some wood and a couple of black keys replaced. However, irreplaceable bits are all there and I really look forward to haveing this source singing "That Old Time Religion" sometime soon. Maybe I'll just start on both and mess with whichever one. Nice to be able to move to something else when you run into a sticky wicket... Of course, I COULD wind up in a sticky wicket on both. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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