Cornwall Timeline Confusion - What are the facts?

[hornertuber]

The other day I was looking through ebay out of boredom and ran into a set of vertical Cornwall II's the seller claimed were from the 60's. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-1960-s-Klipsch-Cornwall-II-2-Speakers-Stereo-Hi-Fi-Unaltered-1st-Owner-/110799938890?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item19cc30e54a#ht_2481wt_1396 Having already looked at http://www.klipsch.com/cornwall-ii-floorstanding-speaker and http://www.klipschcorner.com what seems sometimes like a million times I sent him a message saying he may want to check for himself being careful not to end up in a dispute. I sell on ebay all the time, thought it neighborly to warn him if he has facts messed up. His response though was very forward and assured he was correct, stating Bob Crites himself stated the G in the serial dictated the speakers were made in the 60s.

I didn't respond but in googling to double check I didnt give poor advice to this cocky seller I found this thread right here where a person is saying his series II verts are from 71 because of the J in the serial. http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/140339/1428842.aspx

Personally I own a pair of 72 vertical Cornwall I's thats have/had the correct period correct drivers/crossovers and from what I have looked up serials as well.

So whats the truth are these people wrong and the Cornwall II were only in production from 1985-1990 or what? Are Series II verts or all verts for that matter using a variation of the serial thats throwing people off?

[Budman]

cornwall 11's were in fact made in those early years. i had 3 sets of verticals from 71-72&74 and i'm pretty sure they all had cornwall 11 labels with 2 red arrows that would show you to stand them up or lay them down on their sides. but some could have the labels that said they are 1's. someone on here will respond if they also have some verticals that say 1's on them. 1974 was the last year for verticals and the last year for non removable grills. does your 72's still have the labels and it says 1's on them because i have heard the klipsch used whatever labels were on hand at the time of build

then in 85 they started making 11's again

[Guest " "]

seller is correct....he provided a picture of the label which clearly states cornwall II's. Notice that the labels are in old style print......totally legit...so are you going to buy them now?

[hornertuber]

cornwall 11's were in fact made in those early years. i had 3 sets of verticals from 71-72&74 and i'm pretty sure they all had cornwall 11 labels with 2 red arrows that would show you to stand them up or lay them down on their sides. but some could have the labels that said they are 1's. someone on here will respond if they also have some verticals that say 1's on them. 1974 was the last year for verticals and the last year for non removable grills. does your 72's still have the labels and it says 1's on them because i have heard the klipsch used whatever labels were on hand at the time of build

then in 85 they started making 11's again

Interesting, why was klipsch making a series I and series II at the same time? Just due to some subtle differences in driver/crossover? My labels are Cornwall I's but now that I re look up the codes I guess they are 72's. Think I remember the gent I bought them from saying something the letter code was 73 but taking other things into account all said it was 72. I dont know or care enough to say one way or another.

here is my label, I have the arrows too but I didnt snap a pic

[hornertuber]

seller is correct....he provided a picture of the label which clearly states cornwall II's. Notice that the labels are in old style print......totally legit...so are you going to buy them now?

I would trust facts over labels I could make any day. Glad now I know though for sure, I'll shoot him an email and apologize. Your a smart *** lol, I'm still on the ropes about taking you up on your offer to trade mine for cornscallas. Let alone going cross country to pick up an even rarer pair. Though at the price someones going to get a great deal it seems. Sorry I havent given you a call btw I have some serious stuff going on right now this is my 1st time back on since that for sale post.

[Guest " "]

Let alone going cross country to pick up an even rarer pair.

don't go crazy over the search for the "rare" heritage item....once you think you found it...it wil pop up all over the place and won't be rare anymore. Cornwalls and other Heritage speakers are not that rare anymore.....ever since the craigslist search engines got put up on the internet....you can now get emails when something you are looking for pops up......whats rare is getting to the item to buy it before all the forums put up looky look links and clogg up the selers in box.....there have been a few success stories on craigs list finds on this forums...but that is rare.

I'm still on the ropes about taking you up on your offer to trade mine
for cornscallas.
Sorry I havent given you a call btw I have some serious stuff going on
right now this is my 1st time back on since that for sale post.

No problem on my end....didn't know where you are located and before you cut up your motorboards as you indicated you might have...I was going to offer to make you a new set of motor boards. The boards on the cornwalls you have pop right out. In looking at you intial photo...seems like you have all the elements to amke some cornscala's (511b horn, etc). anyway, I was off for 10 days , so now it's back to work....so don't think I can help you now. I already have a set of cornwalls so Im good there.

[hornertuber]

Cornwalls and other Heritage speakers are not that rare anymore.....ever since the craigslist search engines got put up on the internet....you can now get emails when something you are looking for pops up......whats rare is getting to the item to buy it before all the forums put up looky look links and clogg up the selers in box.....there have been a few success stories on craigs list finds on this forums...but that is rare.

I dont think rarity is dictated by search-ability. The same number of vertical cornwalls exist no matter how they can be searched. I use crazedlist to search every craigs in the tri-state on a regular basis and I have never once seen a vert besides the pair I bought almost 2 years ago. I know what you mean though they are most definitely easier to find, buy, sell being able to search multiple sites across the entire country/world. I'm not old enough to know but I imagine it was much much harder prior.

[hornertuber]

I appreciate, it was definitely flaky of me though. Thats what I was reading about my motor board, I can just light tap it out the back? I searched out threads on grill removal and thats the conclusion I came to. To be honestly that seems like the best option for me because I have a ever growing sentimental attachment to these speakers but not the will to hack them up. Certainly would like a better midrange though. I have the 511b's but actually didnt like the way they sounded in my apt. I felt like they needed attenuation because they were over powering the rest of the ranges and came off pretty sharp. I have a set of fastracs (gothover) in the mail from a member here that I'm looking forward to trying out. I appreciate your offer and am now upset at myself I missed out on your help. Maybe I can manage to fab a set up, I build my last set of speakers. Statement monitors from parts express DIY forum. Is bob in production of motor boards do you know? Last I looked at his site he had a CNC and was starting to produce them.

Let alone going cross country to pick up an even rarer pair.

don't go crazy over the search for the "rare" heritage item....once you think you found it...it wil pop up all over the place and won't be rare anymore. Cornwalls and other Heritage speakers are not that rare anymore.....ever since the craigslist search engines got put up on the internet....you can now get emails when something you are looking for pops up......whats rare is getting to the item to buy it before all the forums put up looky look links and clogg up the selers in box.....there have been a few success stories on craigs list finds on this forums...but that is rare.

I'm still on the ropes about taking you up on your offer to trade mine

for cornscallas.

Sorry I havent given you a call btw I have some serious stuff going on

right now this is my 1st time back on since that for sale post.

No problem on my end....didn't know where you are located and before you cut up your motorboards as you indicated you might have...I was going to offer to make you a new set of motor boards. The boards on the cornwalls you have pop right out. In looking at you intial photo...seems like you have all the elements to amke some cornscala's (511b horn, etc). anyway, I was off for 10 days , so now it's back to work....so don't think I can help you now. I already have a set of cornwalls so Im good there.

[hornertuber]

Accidental double post sorry

[Budman]

the L is 1973

[hornertuber]

the L is 1973

Ya thats what I found when I looked here http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/103886.aspx before I committed to buy mine.

[filmofreddy]

The original 1959 "Cornwall" had its reflex port on the rear of the enclosure. In the early sixties PWK revamped the enclosure & put the port on the front & changed the K-1000 mid horn to the New K-600. Thats when He changed the designation to "Cornwall II". In the 70's He changed the box again to allow horizontal only orientation of the Mid & tweeter with the enclosure vertical & the "II" designation was dropped & it became just the "Cornwall" again. In the eightys' when the crossovers & drivers where changed (& the sensitivity upped) it was, once again designated "Cornwall II" Should have been "III" but it was their call. Cheers & Happy New Year to all.[]

[Budman]

filmo, you do know you can post more than once a year.[] 12 post since 99 Happy New Year

[hornertuber]

Ah, thank you for that explanation. Happy new year to you too :-).

[ClaudeJ1]

The original 1959 "Cornwall" had its reflex port on the rear of the enclosure. In the early sixties PWK revamped the enclosure & put the port on the front & changed the K-1000 mid horn to the New K-600. Thats when He changed the designation to "Cornwall II". In the 70's He changed the box again to allow horizontal only orientation of the Mid & tweeter with the enclosure vertical & the "II" designation was dropped & it became just the "Cornwall" again. In the eightys' when the crossovers & drivers where changed (& the sensitivity upped) it was, once again designated "Cornwall II" Should have been "III" but it was their call. Cheers & Happy New Year to all.

This post is historically correct. This was published in the "Dope from Hope" that I got from Klipsch in the mid-70's when I was just a kid.

[ClaudeJ1]

seller is correct....he provided a picture of the label which clearly states cornwall II's. Notice that the labels are in old style print......totally legit...so are you going to buy them now?

Heck, they are worth it just to have the autograph of some guy named Portus Gilley.............now that IS a southern name, eh? Since the Cornwall is a PORTED enclosure, do you think his namesake got him the job, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder. LOL. How cool is that?

[colterphoto1]

real timeline

CW Time Line MK 070522.pdf

[HDBRbuilder]

OK...here ARE the facts as I remember them:

Portis Gilley was one of the EARLIEST of the full-time employees hired by PWK in the 1950's! He passed away while I was working at Klipsch (1976-1983), and had not COMPLETELY retired from Klipsch, yet. He was also one of the two remaining regular old-time employees from the very early days who had shares of Klipsch stock that were aquired during times that PWK did not have enough money available to make the payroll! During those early hard times for the company, some of the employees agreed to take stock in lieu of some of their pay to cover work performed...Portis was one of those workers. He was a very nice guy , tall, un-assuming country-boy, with a gentle and normally happy disposition, and he was loved by all! That signature was his on those labels, I have seen it too many times! The plant pretty-much shut down so we could all attend his funeral! You won't see that happening now-a-days!

Now, let's talk about Cornwalls...and the first point about them...and for that matter many of the currently-called Heritage line...is that you CANNOT use serial numbers, dates of series, or anything else to make assumptions as to when a particular model version was actually manufactured, or the years it was in manufacture...Not until about the time I left in 1983, anyway!

For example, we kept the routing templates for motorboards/speaker fronts that were "no longer in manufacture", and used them to make parts to build NEW cabinets or additional speakers the whole time I worked there, and it had been going on for years!! That is one of the great things about the company, to begin with...its CUSTOMER SERVICE ORIENTATION!

Let me explain...somebody calls up the plant and says "I want to buy one new Cornwall (or Heresy, or K-horn, etc.) because I just inherited my father's old Cornwall, but he only had one of them...and I want a Stereo set-up...."...are you beginning to see what I mean? So the caller gets asked a number of questions in an effort to determine which version and drivers, etc. his speaker has...what kind of veneer...grill cloth...all the necessary info to make a twin...and if the customer has good pics, we get those too, so we can match the grain of the new one...yadda, yadda, yadda...sometimes the old one is also sent in for upgrades with a new mate built to complete the pair....

So, to make a long story short...this info is taken to the cabinet shop and the needed parts are made up and it is assembled and the needed guts are put into it, including even making a period crossover to go into it, if necessary...but the label that goes on it is one of what we are currently using, instead of an old-timey one...but the model designation should be correct even tho the serial number may be in the current sequence...

And to top it all off, there were times when a dealer may even ask for 20 pairs of vertical horn Cornwalls...and things like that...side risers mounted...you name it, I saw it happen!

So...don't expect perfection in trying to figure EVERYTHING out, because you NEVER WILL! NOBODY WILL! Just roll with the punches, like PWK did!

And...don't get yer panties in a wad when the situation frustrates you, just laugh and say..."Great customer-service company, dammit!"