K69 compared to TAD 4002

[Chris A]

definetley a cost consideration. A few bought the jub version with the k-402/1133 instead and paid the difference. the 1133's are about double the cost of the k-69.

I don't believe that this was the driving difference in the selection of the K-69-A driver, but the K-113X extended range (revised phase plug) might not have been completed by that point in time. I do know that some folks bought K-1132s through Klipsch dealers (inadvertently) and had real issues until they got their K-69-As to replace them.

Better to ask Roy directly than to guess/spend and find out the hard way.

Chris

[Modified-Tractrix]

reverse that. the 1133 has a phse plug which takes it to 20khz. the 1132 has a snout which does wonders for the mid range, but limits the high end to 12khz.

Check your facts, don't want people to get bad advise, if people bought the 1133 for a two way jubilee, they would not be happy unless they could not hear past 10K. The K-1133 is indeed a mid driver and the 1132 a high frequency driver.

[Chris A]

I have found on my jubilees that the B&C D-75 driver which is used on many klipsch pro speakers bests the K-69 by quite bit.

I believe that I heard that one in Hope I believe that I heard the K-69s (not K-69-As) in Hope - it the K-69 is a better driver, but I have to say that it doesn't match the TADs, IMHO. YMMV.

I still believe that the Fostex super tweeters should be considered--they probably sound even better than the TADs, with the caveat of time alignment sensitivity. The Fostex super tweeters (or other supertweeters from JBL or Tannoy) would need to be physically integrated with the speaker to minimize time-alignment issues that affect the huge soundstage that the 2-way Jubilee is famous for. Maybe the add-on baffle at the top of the K-402 like the commercial version of the Jubilee?

Chris

[Chris A]

(No post...)

[Modified-Tractrix]

I believe that I heard that one in Hope - it is a better driver, but I have to say that it doesn't match the TADs, IMHO. YMMV.

Of course they don't Chris, but you can order them for an additional $125.00 each on a 402 while the 4002's are $2000.00 ea. and very difficult to get at the moment. i would buy TAD's today if anyone stocked them.

[Modified-Tractrix]

Don't see anything useful there. how about this:

http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/mfg/3579/media_document/live_1/CinemaBrochure.pdf?1288243307

Look at the pages toward the back under system descriptions.

the only difference between an 1132 and an 1133 is the distance from the phase plug to diaphragm the 1133 has a greater distance to support larger excursions in the midrange.

[Chris A]

i would buy TAD's today if anyone stocked them.

I keep my eyes open for TADs then...[]

Don'tcha just love spending other people's money? []

[Coytee]

Sadly, i have at least another two weeks to wait before my Jubilee Bins arrive.

Will be the longest two weeks of your life however, once they arrive you'll exude a big smile and forget all this current torture.

Interesting thread... I was merely putting those pictures up so that anyone who's heard about them but never seen them would have an idea of how they compare side by side to the K69.

I'm a curious type. Years ago, I heard about the JBL 2404's. I looked them up & saw some pictures of them. It wasn't until I saw them in my hands and then next to the K77, that I realized how much larger they were than the K77's.

It's in that vain that I put these up. So that anyone who's heard about them could get an idea of how they compare.

[RRFL]

Sadly, i have at least another two weeks to wait before my Jubilee Bins arrive.

Will be the longest two weeks of your life however, once they arrive you'll exude a big smile and forget all this current torture.

Interesting thread... I was merely putting those pictures up so that anyone who's heard about them but never seen them would have an idea of how they compare side by side to the K69.

I'm a curious type. Years ago, I heard about the JBL 2404's. I looked them up & saw some pictures of them. It wasn't until I saw them in my hands and then next to the K77, that I realized how much larger they were than the K77's.

It's in that vain that I put these up. So that anyone who's heard about them could get an idea of how they compare.

I'm still waiting for my replacement Jub to arrive. I wonder if that's now 2 pairs of jubs that have been built before my replacement jub was built, emmm. Will my serial numbers be 4 numbers apart now? Will I have to sell my odd pair of jubs and get a new fresh pair so I will have matching serial numbers?

I'm thinking I might have to get a pair of TAD4002. I was thinking this from before I asked Roy for a pair of Jubs back in June 2011 and he recommended the K/69 with the KPT-402 in one of the threads somewhere on this web site over the BNC 75 for home use purposes.

Quote"

Hi Rod,

I can help you to get a pair of jubs going your way.

Basically there are two horns and two drivers that you can order with the lfs. You can order a KPT-402-HF with either a BNC 75 or a K69. Or a KPT904HF with a BNC 75 or a K69. I have the active settings that I can send you so that you can program your DSP. The LF can be ordered raw.

Look up the KPT402hf and kpt904hf on line. the 402 is a much larger horn but holds it polars very well while the 904 is smaller. after you have decided what you are looking for, then let me know and we can get it going.

if you have any more questions, let me know.

take care,

roy"

My understanding is that the K1132 and K1133 are necessary when you need a bit of stick in a Cinema. In home use the 2 way configuration produces superior reproduction.

My understanding is that the TAD 4002 driver has a pure beryllium diaphragm in a neodymium magnetic circuit.

The bad news is that the neodymium magnetic material is now becoming difficult to obtain and I know that SLS are going to redesign the LS6593v2 as they cannot get the neodymium magnets any longer.

So having a pair of the TAD 4002 might be like having a Picasso.

[RRFL]

So hows this for having a set of matching serial numbers.

[mark1101]

Dual 8800s..........You dropped a few bucks there didn't you?

[Guest Anonymous]

Sadly, i have at least another two weeks to wait before my Jubilee Bins arrive.

Will be the longest two weeks of your life however, once they arrive you'll exude a big smile and forget all this current torture.

Interesting thread... I was merely putting those pictures up so that anyone who's heard about them but never seen them would have an idea of how they compare side by side to the K69.

I'm a curious type. Years ago, I heard about the JBL 2404's. I looked them up & saw some pictures of them. It wasn't until I saw them in my hands and then next to the K77, that I realized how much larger they were than the K77's.

It's in that vain that I put these up. So that anyone who's heard about them could get an idea of how they compare.

I'm still waiting for my replacement Jub to arrive. I wonder if that's now 2 pairs of jubs that have been built before my replacement jub was built, emmm. Will my serial numbers be 4 numbers apart now? Will I have to sell my odd pair of jubs and get a new fresh pair so I will have matching serial numbers?

I

What happened to your Jubs?

[RRFL]

Dual 8800s..........You dropped a few bucks there didn't you?

Thanks for sharing your experience with your Ashly crossover and that your dream unit would be the NE8800.

One of these is mine and the other is going into a home sound installation to control the Tuba HT LP I'm building to provide Low Bass for a trio of SLS LS6593v2's. These are the Last 3 of these SLS in the world as the neoymium magnets are no longer available and the speakers will now be re-designed with conventional magnets.

I would like to keep them both an have one for my LaScala and one for my Jubilee.

To get this to happen my associate had to become the Australian Dealer for Ashly. I had been working on getting this since you let me know your thoughts on your Ashly and finally we have success.

The owner of the house the other Ashly is going into is the owner of the Hotel where my damaged Jub is now installed and providing the Low Bass for 6 of the SLS LS6593v2's.

[RRFL]

Sadly, i have at least another two weeks to wait before my Jubilee Bins arrive.

Will be the longest two weeks of your life however, once they arrive you'll exude a big smile and forget all this current torture.

Interesting thread... I was merely putting those pictures up so that anyone who's heard about them but never seen them would have an idea of how they compare side by side to the K69.

I'm a curious type. Years ago, I heard about the JBL 2404's. I looked them up & saw some pictures of them. It wasn't until I saw them in my hands and then next to the K77, that I realized how much larger they were than the K77's.

It's in that vain that I put these up. So that anyone who's heard about them could get an idea of how they compare.

I'm still waiting for my replacement Jub to arrive. I wonder if that's now 2 pairs of jubs that have been built before my replacement jub was built, emmm. Will my serial numbers be 4 numbers apart now? Will I have to sell my odd pair of jubs and get a new fresh pair so I will have matching serial numbers?

I

What happened to your Jubs?

One of my Jubilee LF was damaged in shipping. I reckon it was stacked on top of the pair of KPT-402 and the 402 cartons deflected and the LF fell face first onto a hard surface.

The damaged Jub is now in Rydges Hotel Bar, World Square Sydney and provides the Low Bass for 6 SLS LS6593v2 speakers. I organised this so the Sydney Cinema dealer could get a partial recovery on the cost of the damaged Jub. The Jub has been cosmetically touched up and the front panel is now covered in wall paper matching the wall behind with a table top above. The hotel is extremely pleased with the installation. They run general background music during the week and have a DJ playing on Friday nights. The Allen & Heath iDR8 that was originally intended to be DSP for my Jubs is also part of that installation and I'm going to use the Ashly NE8800 in my system.

My replacement Jub was due to arrive in December and now it is said to be January. Today is Australia Day 25th January so there are not many days left before February.

[ClaudeJ1]

Geepers - those are amazing!!!! Turbox, what speaker are you using your K69a/K510 with? I have three of those combos here, maybe try a swap on LS?? But then it'd take the same processing power and biamping that a Jubilee takes won't it? Or is there simple passive network that does the trick? I have a couple of the 1133's here, never figured out what to use them on.

Mike,

If you still have K-402's, that driver will easily go to 300 Hz.. I'm crossing mine first order passive to an FH-1 with a K33. But you would have to add a super tweeter because it dives at 5K.

[OO1]

-

[Chris A]

Wow...reaching into the past.

 

I don't consider supertweeters to be the way to go simply because you can't get the tweeters close enough to the midrange port or horn centerline to avoid pretty severe polar lobing, and resulting phase and group delay (the rate of change of phase vs. frequency) issues at the crossover interference band.

 

Since 2012, I've investigated a lot of stuff using REW and other types of loudspeaker configurations (like MEHs), and have listened to the effects of SPL and phase flattening, as well as controlling group delay through the crossover interference bands.  Once you hear the difference, it's very difficult to go back to separate tweeters crossing above 1-2 kHz. 

 

If you could arrange a tweeter at the throat of multiple-entry horn (MEH), and get the midrange ports close enough to the tweeter crossover frequency (i.e., within 1/4 wavelength at the crossover band), then the supertweeter approach might be effective, but then you'd have to cross no higher than 2 kHz in order to get the midrange ports close enough.  That basically negates the use of supertweeters in my experience. 

 

I might instead recommend something like an ESS AMT-1 assembly that can be crossed at a low enough frequency to avoid the issues that I highlighted above.  Also, full-range 2" compression drivers are also the other way to avoid polar lobing issues, especially using co-axial ring radiator compression drivers like the BMS 2" co-axial compression drivers.  These BMS drivers can be had for less than half the cost of the beryllium diaphragm 1.4 to 2" compression drivers from Radian.  The flip side is that you need a separate amplifier channel and DSP channel for these drivers so that they can be time-aligned (instead of just phase aligned) at the HF/midrange diaphragm crossover interference band.

 

YMMV.

 

Chris