elricobank Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Harmon Kardon 3490 receiver with dual Sub outputs. Good quality subwoofer interconnect to the SW310 LFE/Left input. Set the gain at 50% and didn't even think the sub was turned on. Have to max out the gain in order to get any real response from this unit. I bought it to compliment my existing Ultracube 12 from Paradigm (and just because i have the option of two sub outputs from the HK) I have to turn the paradigm sub down to about 40% volume and the SW310 to full gain to get roughly the same output level from both. I'm a bit astonished since the SW310 claims to have a sensitivity of 106db and max acoustic output of 116db which is 2db better in sensitivity and 4db less in output than my LaScalas and they can produce output that's absolutely scary. The paradigm does have a 650 watt Class D amp so i expect more output by default. But I have used the SW310 alone and still don't see anything close to what i would expect from a 400 watt (900 watt dynamic) BASH amp. Does the SW310 need a break in period? The sound quality from it is very satisifying, but the output level seems very weak. I keep the HK bass control at flat response and use my EQ to boost the 16hz to 50hz area. This has worked beautifully with the paradigm and sometimes even have to attenuate the bass depending on source material. Yet the SW310 is completely different and needs much more boost from either the EQ or the HK bass knob to get something that compliments the main speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sounds like something is amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Have you always run the 2 subs together? If so, you may have some cancellation going on. Try just running the Klipsch sub and see if it "appears" louder than when the other one is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Paradigm subs are pretty darn good. The SW310 is a great sub from what I have heard, but the problem could be that the Paradigm is just louder. It has a dynamic peak of 1950 watts! I have a DSP-3200, and it shakes the whole house, and it is only a 900 watt dynamic peak... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenM Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 How are the subwoofers placed? When you tested the SW310 by itself, did you move it to where the Ultracube 12 was located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricobank Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Oh, I completely understand that the paradigm will over power the Klipsch easily. I don’t expect the Klipsch to keep up, only to work together with the paradigm (by attenuating the paradigm). The Klipsch is replacing an older BASH 150 watt, 10” down firing powered sub with a ported enclosure. The old sub worked together with the paradigm pretty well. But you’re only going to get so much out of a 150 watt amp. The Klipsch has a BASH 400 watt (900 peak) amp, so I figured that would be a great replacement. Plus I prefer a sealed sub with passive radiators over the ported config. I have no doubt the Kipsch can provide great output and sound. I just can’t get it to the level I need with the gain control. I’m now looking into a line level amplifier to put between my sub, preamp out on the receiver and the Klipsch line level input. Hoping to find one that will not degrade the signal. Anyone have personal experience with such an animal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricobank Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I put the SW310 in place of my older, suplementary powered sub. I'm looking into a line level amp to put between the Klipsch and my sub, preamp outputs on the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricobank Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have used my prior two subs together for some time now. However, I have tested the Klipsch by itself to check the response and power. It replaced a less powerful, 10” down firing sub with a ported enclosure at 150 watts RMS and 400 watt peaks. I still have to turn the Klipsch gain to full to get the same output as the old sub at about 40% volume. I use an EQ in the receiver tape loop to boost the 25hz to 40hz range and leave my receiver bass control at flat response. I use the bass control on the receiver to attenuate the bass if I listen to material that is strong in bass. This has worked fine for me for years. I have a vintage pair of LaScala speakers for my mains. I purchased the subs to fill in at the lower levels. I wanted the Kilpsch sub to replace the less powerful sub and to get the sealed enclosure of the Klipsch. The only thing I can think to do is to somehow boost the signal to the Klipsch sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A down firing sub would have a different placement than a sw-310. Try re-positioning the sub. This one will definitely outperform your old one in every way. Do you have a layout or some pics of your installation you can post? If it isn't positioning, then a call to Klipsch support would be in order, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have the sw310 in the corner of the room with the gain 75% and the reciever +1. My reciever is an onkyo 709. I found a rolling Hz sound track and the the sub will fall off quickly around 25hz. It does sound good but it does not punch you like some of the larger subs can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elricobank Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Tried two experiments. Used a Y adapter to run my sub preamp output to both left and right inputs on the Sub. Then began messing with the phase adjustment. I'm now getting output that compliments the existing sub and main speakers with the gain at about 75%. However it seems that the two subs might not be completely in phase with each other. As if one is following the other slightly and causing an echoic or muddy effect. So at least i'm getting to the point where the Klipsch sub is actually contributing to the overall lower bass. I think i will try syncing the phase of both subs independantly with the mains and see how it sounds. I read an article that suggested reversing the polarity of both main speakers and adjust the sub for the nullest bass sound. Working on the pretense that it's easier to detect the absence of the bass rather than the most boost. Once you reach this plateau your mains and sub should theoretically be 180 degrees out of phase. Once you have the nullest sound possible, you put the polarity back to where it belongs on your mains and you should then have the sub phase matched to the mains. So hopefully, if I can sync both woofers this way, they both will in turn be in correct phase with each other. Got some test tones to experiment with. Will probably use tones in the 50-60hz range since this is about where the mains really take off in response. Thanks for all the suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 If the two subs are running from a Y-adapter, then the delay would have to be signal processing on one of the subs being slower. If one has processing and the other doesn't, that would account for it. The phase adjustment causes this by default unless they are set the same, eg. 0 or 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have the sw310 in the corner of the room with the gain 75% and the reciever +1. My reciever is an onkyo 709. I found a rolling Hz sound track and the the sub will fall off quickly around 25hz. It does sound good but it does not punch you like some of the larger subs can. The corner load is the best. Another question is what direction is the driver firing? If the driver is facing the corner, and the passives are not, you will get the best you can. Also the distance from the corner matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMG Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The driver is facing out and the radiator is facing the wall. I will try putting the driver to the wall and one of the radiators to the back wall tonight and see how it sounds. I would guess that the sub is 10" from both walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The driver is facing out and the radiator is facing the wall. I will try putting the driver to the wall and one of the radiators to the back wall tonight and see how it sounds. I would guess that the sub is 10" from both walls. I got to thinking about what I said, and realized how ugly looking at the back of a sub would be. Be sure to try moving it out and in from the corner. An SPL meter and some test tones would be nice things to use here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajab Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Around 2 months ago i bought myself the Klipsch SW-310 sub to add on to my existing system which include Klipsch RF-82ii and RC-62ii. I was/am still amazed how sweet these speakers sound so i assumed that getting myself that sub would be the wisest thing to do. After hooking everything onto my reciever (Pioneer 1020-k), and running all the calibration and stuff, i found the punch to be very low and even when i turned it close to 100% there was much of a difference so that has left me wondering if my reciever is unable to provide it with adequate power or is this sub simply too over-rated.But i give it top marks for looks.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Nothing to do with your receiver's power. A powered subwoofer's output capability doesn't have anything to do with how powerful a receiver is. What probably happened is that your receiver set your speakers to Large and because of that very little bass is being fed to your sub. Set them to Small with a crossover point of 80Hz and see what happens. You also have to experiment where your sub is in the room. A sub's output is extremely effected by where you place it in the room and where you are sitting in relation to the sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajab Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 After months of having my setup, i came across a thread on AVforums which had detailed steps on how MCACC should be run and BOOOOOM! - the SW-310 came to life FINALLY. Placement and correct setup are the most vital things when setting up subs. Couldnt be happier.[].....For all those interested, kindly open the below link and follow the steps. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1112470&page=3 READ THE POST BY gamelover360 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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