moray james Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I would be most interested on a two way set up with a crossover point in the 4 - 500 Hz range as this would give me options for bass either a horn cab or direct radiators. jube cabinets look like a bit more work than I would want to do now due to health issues. I have looked at several cabinets designed by Ernst Beck who recently passed away He has a number which look suitable. Easiest entry would be a beater set of La Scalla but that would not be my first choice. This is a big jump and while I don't doubt the benefits not having made the jump makes it harder to do in a way. I do know that once you have made up your mind then everything gets easier. I don't imagine that either of the larger one inch entry horns that I have will do the K703 and K603 not sure if the K603 could be puhed a lot lower don't know. I have a set of Lambda Acoustics Unity Horns which could get me to 300 Hz they need mids and one inch conp drivers. That's where I am at rightr now and I am trying to see if I can even get there from here whit what I have. I would not have problems with a Karlson bass cabinet design design as I have had good results with them in the past. as well Thanks a lot, Best regards Moray James. http://www.egbeck.de/expo15.htm http://www.egbeck.de/15bhorn0.htm additional designs by Ernst Beck http://www.egbeck.de/speaker.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Using La Scala bass bin is not a bad strategy, although you might want to supplement it with a subwoofer. Since you want to cross at 400-500Hz and keep it two way you will run into a number of problems. Generally, horns that can go as low as that usually don't go high enough, but there are exceptions. I would shy away from using a 1 inch throated horn. A 1.4 or 2 inch is more appropriate, but there will be compromises involved. On top of this, limiting you choices to a CD horn will require some further compromises. However, I am a big fan of CD horns. Two-inch horns that I liked (that can be crossed at 500 Hz and used in a two-way) include the 1) JBL bi-radial, 23xx series (cross as high and as steeply as possible) and the 2) Electrovoice HP series (HP940 is 90 degree and easily obtained on eBay, but HP640 is 60 deg and sounds a bit better). I mention these two sonce they are readily available and affordable. Obviously, a Klipsch K-402 or 510 is a better choice, but they are expensive and hard to find on the used market. From what I have seen, I would not trust a home-made version of these at this point. In time, that may change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Thanks Tom: I guess I should qualify that when I said a two way I meanr that the bass driver would get to la Scalla range and o in all honesty the system would be a three way using subs. The use of the Unity horn would allow me to drop down to 300 Hz and could be extended down as low as 100 Hz if small long throw 6.5 inch woofers were added along the lines of a Synergy Horn. Then a tapped horn could easily handel the bass. Not sure how a tapped horn and a Synergy will match but Tom seems to do ok in that regard. Man all of this because I get a bug in my ear to go large format. Its a real paradime shift that's for sure.Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Okay, I guess I am confused about what you are trying to accomplish. So my above comments are probably on the wrong track. Since somone else started this thread on another topic, prehaps you should start your own thread that focuses on your own concerns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I am looking at possible options using various horns bass and mid. I am not sure where to start. Sorry for any confusion this kind of feels like a chicken and an egg situation. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyeanderson Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I am looking at possible options using various horns bass and mid. I am not sure where to start. Sorry for any confusion this kind of feels like a chicken and an egg situation. Best regards Moray James. I think it starts here on the forum, and then come money. If it were easy you wouldn't see all of the gear in the garage sale area. I spent some money when I had it but it didn't last long enough. I have put together several systems; luckily damaged goods don't bring an excessive amount of outlay in dollars but the time makes up for it. Having some space for large speakers seems to be part of the equation. I started to play with my outdoor/indoor system for the garage yesterday, I was looking for something that will cover the area behind my house out in the salt marsh, I took the dog for a swim today after I got the Khorn top mounted on the ported peavey FH-1 cabs The K400 has the Peavey 22A compression driver mounted. I cranked it up a bit. It was inside and I left the back door open and got the tennis ball. We went out about 800 feet and even with the wind I could just to say hear it but at 400 to 500 it was listenable. I do have neighbors so I walked over to the lot line about 50 feet from the side of garage and it was not excessive. This photo is taken with me standing in the door way about 12 feet away so when I get it on a moving dolly it will work a lot better. Toys are just for fun, more toys is more fun... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I am trying to see if I can make a jump without spending a lot right now as I really don't have it to spend but an upgrade would be motivational and make the idea of actually spending more on another project seem somehow a lot easier. If that makes any sense. Hey perhaps a rig in the trees along the lot lline pointing back at the house? Some garbage bags for weather protection. Might not bother the people next door so much. Or just invite them for free food and drinks that usually does the trick. Works for me. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Congratulations on your K402 find. Wish I had the room for a pair of those monsters but that's not the case. Could you rlaborate a little more regarding the dispersion beaming above 8KHz? Don't know if you are interested in playing but I have had sucess with inserting some diffraction inito the mouth of the horn about a 1/4 to a 1/3 of the way in. I have never played with a horn the size of a K402 but I would imagine you would need a sphere about 3 inches perhaps more in diametre. Position it in the centre of the horn and play with the front to back position. Something to consider perhaps. Best regards Moray James. I think a sphere would be diffusion, not diffraction, interesting, but not for me. If you look at polar plots, you will find beaming at higher frequencies. Some cause by the horn itself and/or by the throat/phase plug of the driver. It's not easy to have a big horn go from 500-18Khz without some form of gradual beaming. You need a 1" throat or smaller driver to do wider beam angles at over 10 Khz. Most horns start to beam way before then. Just look at polar plots. The reason I went 3-way with sub (see my NEW AVATAR) is that I get a very crisp AND wider dispersion from a tweeter than I would PEQing the K402 into a 2-way. Also, with the 133, I can cross lower than I would with a driver that is designed to go to 18K, which would inherently beam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 play with a pool ball or something a little larger in there for an hour or so. All you need if some string and some tape. I think that you will be surprised and if not all that has happened is that I owe you for an hour of your time. let me know. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freddyi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 hi Moray - what kind of power amps are you running? although not as sensitive, a Karlson 12 loaded with Eminence/Pyle PYM1298 (much like current Kappa 12A) & topped with the Transylvania Power Co. "The Tube" did better on drums & hi-hats than my stock FH1/K55V-511/APT150 setup. An X15 midbass could be good as would be K15 but Karlson mesh best with Karlson stuff - some horn patterns aren't a great combination. A rectangular 250Hz LE5 driven Edgarhorn was only so-so with K15 - I did like a big (30" wide) radial. A one inch format K-tube is good only to about 1K2 but 15's will reach that high. Faerber uses a very long unslotted portion on their K-coupler tweeter which protrudes thru their midhorn. I tried up to 11" unslotted portion and 5.5" slotted and that worked well with my little 15s and K18. Best, Freddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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