Help on staining my Birch Cornwalls

[midrange crisis]

I bought my Cornwall lls in 1987. Its now 2012 and something just struck Me. Hey, I like these things, I think Ill keep them. Maybe its time to stain them! Im kind of slow.

I typed " how to stain speakers". thinking some generic advice was all I could get. I finally stumbled upon the "klipsch community" and O.M.G.!!! Here is a lot of people that know a hell of alot more than Me, even on my best day of B.S. I'm trying my hardest to decypher your language.

Although many of you seem very generous with advice and dont seem to mind typing (not Me); I thought it better to read several posts which, I think gave some helpfull tips. A few more questions answered would be great.

1.There is some darkening on top from years of exposure, handoil and dust. I was planning a light sanding and it sounds like micro paper is perferred over steelwool?
2. it sounds like a conditioner would help to eliminate porous areas and reduce splotching? Does watco make this product or is minwax a good choice?

3. I was thinking of darkening the stain. It sounds like watco Danish oil (golden oak or med walnut).

4. I assume you would also stain the back panels. I thought it might be neat to clearstain the backs and pedistals for contrast. any downside?

If any of you kind folk have advice for a novice( be nice). I just dont want to screw this up. I' ll post a photo if I suceed. Thank You in advance Bob from Petaluma.

[bigTbarker]

I just wont to welcome a Cornwall II guy to the form. I myself have
no advice on staining, see I took the easy (lazy) way and painted
them Black. I am sure some one here can help you Sir.

[Groomlakearea51]

Welcome to the Forum;

some thoughts to your questions below

1.There is some darkening on top from years of exposure, handoil and dust. I was planning a light sanding and it sounds like micro paper is perferred over steelwool?

Yes, over time birch, being a lighter wood, will tend to yellow from exposure to light, and from any oiling buildup.

Before you do anything, you should wipe the speakers down with lacquer thinner to remove the old oil, dirt, etc. Allow to dry and repeat the process a couple times until the rag being used is coming off clean. Allow to dry, then a final wipe with mineral spirits.

Sanding is great and the end result is much better, but you probably want to either buy or borrow a good quality random orbital sander. Not only does it make the job far easier, the sanding results will be far better than attempting to do it by hand. You will want some 400 grit pads, some 600 grit pads, and at least 16 of each grit. You want to change pads quite often, and it takes two pads per panel. Be careful and practice on the bottom panels before proceeding to the sides and tops. Always sand with the grain, and do not press down; simply go back and forth, and after a couple passes, wipe off the residue with a damp cloth.

2. it sounds like a conditioner would help to eliminate porous areas and reduce splotching? Does watco make this product or is minwax a good choice?

Depends.... applying a conditioner will certainly cause the stain to be very even, but will not accentuate some of the grain patterns that youmay want to be more visible.

3. I was thinking of darkening the stain. It sounds like watco Danish oil (golden oak or med walnut).

The Watco products are really good for "fine tuning" the stain's "hue", but the best method is to select a couple stains and experiment with a piece of birch plywood. usually, to control just how fast and how deep the stain gets is to dilute the stain 50/50 with mineral spirits, wipe, let sit for a couple minutes, then wipe off with a slightly dampened rag with mineral spirits. Allow to dry, and then apply the oil of your choice on the test piece(s). Then pick what you want and do the same with the cabinets.

4. I assume you would also stain the back panels. I thought it might be neat to clearstain the backs and pedistals for contrast. any downside?

You may also wish to paint the back panels and the "risers" satin or semi-gloss black. Depends, of course, on what you are looking for in "decor".

Before you "venture" into the project, you should remove the back panel and the drivers; I also suggest you consider re-painting the motor boards and installing fresh new velcro for the grills.

Hope that is of some assistance.

[moray james]

Welcome to the forum. Another child of the Corn. I will give a big plus to Groomlakearea51and his advice. I was going to mention that the standard ways to stain these speakers are candles beer bottles and plant pots. I like to use #0000 steel wool ro apply the oil as it wwill cut the surface enough to get it in and smoothe it off with out actually removing the fine surface parena that has built up over the decades. Sanding can easily remove the patena and leave you with clean smooth wood with no colour (patena) left so sanr as little as necessary and lightly as possivle with a fine open coat paper. Good luck and post pictures of your work. Best regards Moray James.

[Guest " "]

cover the labels permenately with wide clear tape....trim it about 1/4 of an inch around the label....get this to stick real good to the label and wood....this will prevent the stain from coloring your labels...leave the clear tape on them...if done well..it looks real good.

instead of trying to darken your cabs to hid darkend tops...you can use deck bleach to lighten the tops. theres some deck bleach thats designed to remove stains from nails , etc that works well. it works better if sunlight can activate the bleach. it lightens incrementally so it will take a couple of attempts to get it to the lightness you want.

play around with birch ply scrap wood to get your technique right.

use blue masking tape on your motor boards if the are painted black. nothing looks worse that a black motorboard that has oak or walnut brush strokes from un prepped staining.

don't for get to the the bottoms..remove the risers if you have any...the bottoms is a good practice area...so is the insides of the risers.....so is the inside of the rear access panel..if you goof it up..no one will really know.

I like oil based stain becuase it penetrates deeper. Water base stain is good if you are a total rookie and might need to steel wool or light sand color mismatches.

[The Dude]

Dido what fritz said alot of my labels have stain on them. I would even remove the screws from the back as well and put some temporary screws in once you get stain or paint in there makes it real tough to take them out for maintaining the drivers, while you have the backs off I would get some new caps for those crossovers.

Hey Groom could one use mineral spirits to lighten up stains. I have a project in mind that needs some cherry stain but I don't want a dark red or cherry just a hint.

Have fun glad you decided to keep them after 25 years.

[Groomlakearea51]

Fritz's idea for bleach is another lightening option. Traditionally, oxalic acid will also do the same thing. Be careful with the bleach.... Leave it on too long and will cause the cellulose fibers to break down... With unstained raw birch, usually a very light sanding will restore the hue to the consistent light, almost "pinkish" hue of the raw birch.

Oil based stain, once it's set up, is very difficult to lighten because it has saturated the fibers over time. Lacquer thinner, if used quickly, and with several applications, will likely be much more effective than min spirits. The key is to soak the surface, but get it off quickly before it penetrates to the glue than binds the veneer to the substrate. That can usually be repaired by "ironing" the entire surface to re-cure the glue.

[WMcD]

I always advocate the use of non scratching ScotchBrite to clean wood. Never steel wool.

I would use 320 paper with a sanding block if you want to sand. It is difficult to remove wood with 320 and moreso with 400. So you should not have any problem with sanding through the birch veneer. BTW, I've worked with birch veneer ply from HD and specialty shops and never sanded through the top layer. OTOH I've never been trying to remove a stain, like a water stain from a planter, which might get absorbed several wood cells down.

BTW, I've read many cautions about the possibility of sanding through the top layer. I have not seen any pictures, or reports, where this actually happened. Of course if you get too agressive, it can happen.

Years ago I tried the usual stains on pine and maybe birch -- don't recall the latter. Results were poor because the overall result was muddy. Years later I learned part of the problem. Most stains are just thinned out paint. This is to say it is made up of a liquid vehicle and colloidal particles of color. That is why the instructions say to stir the contents to get the muck out of the bottom of the can and up into suspension.

The instructions say to wipe off what you apply to remove excess. That is the excess colloidal color. But overall, you're looking at the wood structure and the very fine pieces of colored particles which get stuck to what I'll call the microstructure of the wood.

Later I read about dyes in woodworking books. These are actual colored liquids rather than suspensions of particles. The books report much better results.

Let me suggest http://www.garrettwade.com/behlen-solar-lux-ngr-dye-stain/p/99P10.01/ which I used on mahogany wood with very good results.

The typical term for what is sought in wood finishing is "depth" or chatoyance (cat's eye). Dyes seem to be one part of the process though maybe some light use of pigmented stain can be used.

See http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Chatoyance.html

I have some doubt whether anyone can put an impressive stain on birch. I've seen some jewelry store cabinets which look to me like stained birch (maybe not dyed), but it is not close to walnut or cherry. This makes sense because if there was some magic process of making inexpensive birch look very grand, it would be everywhere -- but it is not. The bottom line is . . . be realistic in expectations.

I also like wipe on varnish http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/147298/1514824.aspx#1514824

People like Watco. Years ago there was an article by a respected woodworker who advocated applying the first and second layers with 320 Wet-or-Dry paper. I have no experience.

WMcD

[jacksonbart]

Drinking tea will stain your teeth. Just a thought