oldenough Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just pulled this from a Bell&Howell film projector, anyone want to hazard a guess as to what could be expected from it as part of a mono system. Sorry I am not very savvy when it comes to tube amps. I was going to use it with my single Electrovoice Regency, and a mono turntable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Tube compliment, tho I can't read some of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Fascinating. There are other things we need to see. Your pix of the tube diagram shows a bit of a switch labeled "half track," which is certainly interesting. The front panel indicates EG for recording to a magnetic track, probably NAB EQ curve, on film. I was unaware of such in 16mm...was this a Super 8mm projector? In any event, the "play" position for either magnetic or optical will be equalized for those media and quite nasty unless from those media, I would hazard to guess. Is there an "aux" or "line" in anywhere? Most of the above is guesses based on experience from a LONG time ago and subject to old timers disease. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Hi Dave, It was a 16mm projector, the only inputs are those that you can see on the first photo, those being "phonograph" and "microphone". from what I have been able to find out these amps are quite popular with blues harp players....John PS I do have the transformer, it is located seperately from the amp chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Here's a pic of the projector it may be of interest to some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Don't expect a lot of power or frequency response. There is none. I believe 6 watts ouput max and your lucky if you have 50HZ to 10KHZ response magnetically.What does your manual say? Remember that the optical portion is 50HZ to 6KHZ and that's pushing it. IMHO this is a looser. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Don't expect a lot of power or frequency response. There is none. I believe 6 watts ouput max and your lucky if you have 50HZ to 10KHZ response magnetically.What does your manual say? Remember that the optical portion is 50HZ to 6KHZ and that's pushing it. IMHO this is a looser. Uses 6AQ5 output tubes... almost the same as 6V6s. The output freq. response will be tied somewhat to the quality of the output transformer. It could be reasonable for very litle cost, if you can find a schematic for it. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is the best schematic I've found for it. Tech 202 diagram_2.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Looking at the pix it looks like it was for magnectically stripped film. I'd thought perhaps it used 16mm magnetic film, the full width stuff I once used to transfer from a Nagra R2R to so the editors could sync it with the film in editing to be sent to the lab to make the release print with optical track. However, I think this is for the stripped version so you could add a track to a "silent" film. Quality...not my area of expertise. The previously stated response for optical is correct. As film audio engineer I used to be able to look at a "fresh from the lab" optical track with a loupe and tell you whether it was going to sound decent or not. That was, well, a while ago. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 This is the best schematic I've found for it.Thanks Bruce.[Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We used the mag striped film for all of our news work. The actual audio was 24 frames ahead of the pictiure, so it could run smoothly past the playback head (but you knew that). The freq. response for it was not too bad. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We used the mag striped film for all of our news work. The actual audio was 24 frames ahead of the pictiure, so it could run smoothly past the playback head (but you knew that). The freq. response for it was not too bad. Bruce Ah! Now I get it. I was never exposed to mag stripe 16 because we shot with crystal sync R2R, as did most everyone who was doing stuff for release since all sound projectors had optical. At first, we used 7242 Ektachrome reversal (we soon switched to Kodachrome negative) , which was the standard for news operations at the time when shooting MOS. Most TV ops didn't do any sort of sound on film due to cost...but I can see why those that did would use mag stripe film for that purpose since it's sort of a "one shot" do it all in the station process and being compatible with regular projectors wouldn't be an issue. Thanks for the enlightenment, Bruce! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Dave, At first I used one of the huge Auricon cameras for sound, and all the 'B' roll was shot on one of the small Bell and Howell spring wound cameras. Those ended being replaced with Cinema Products CP-16A cameras. Light magnesium bodies and crytal controlled motors, so we could do sync work if we wanted, but we never did. The cameras audio section had two mic inputs and a line input. We did have one CP-16R, which was had a reflex shutter. other specs were the same. For a while, they were THE camera for TV news gathering, but the 3/4 inch video soon overtook them, for better or worse. We, for obvious reasons, used Ektachrome, sine it was going on the air within an hour or so. All the telecine projectors could do mag stripe or optical playback. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldenough Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I think I'll put the projector back together, and shelve yet another project....Maybe I'll look out for some films to run thru it...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I was in radio at the time, and only did TV during the Vietnam war and as an AFRTS station we didn't gather news. All our film from the states was optical sound. I really hadn't thought about how TV news handled sound until you brought it up. I knew they all had major investments in on site processors and such, but never considered sound. Those ended being replaced with Cinema Products CP-16A cameras. Our operation got one of those to use in jet cockpits due to it's size. We normally used the Arri S and the large mag Arri...I forget the name now, but they were too big and heavy for use in a cramped cockpit. Those where the days. "Remember, guys, 25 cents a foot!" our director used to say. Costs only labor now, and you don't even have to bother to compose or worry about the exposure. No discipline required...I think we were better for it. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Don't expect hi-fi range performance. Optical 16mm soundtracks weren't good for more then 10K-12Khz, the mag stripe a little better. As someone else mentioned, mag striped 16mm was used heavily for news gathering until video tape became portable enough to use in the field. You have to get into better quality theater amps for hifi and still you're not going to see true 20-20Khz frequency ranges. Not that you can't enjoy that amp anyway with some vintage equpment, but I've got a pretty good collection of sound 16mm shorts and they are a lot of fun to watch. (for you other old geezers, I'm talking boxes and boxes full of those great films you used to see in school, like "A visit to the Lionel train factory" or "How plants reproduce" or "Passing Laws in Congress." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Optical 16mm soundtracks weren't good for more then 10K-12Khz, You must have been somewhere different. 6khz was the limit. Any freq too small to see with a loupe wasn't going to happen. There was a perfect correlation between the resolving ability of the film and the highest frequency you could reproduce and about 6khz was pretty much the limit. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sometimes aligning that sound tube was a real bear if the film was moving back and forth. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Sometimes aligning that sound tube was a real bear if the film was moving back and forth. JJK Note the extra path on the FilmoSound. Better projectors had these and they kept the optical track pretty well aligned. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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