Mayday! Mayday! I think I have a problem...

[CaptnBob]

Well, it started like this - I put my faithful Marantz 15 on ebay, along with a complete discription and a dozen or so pictures from different angles. Some guy in Texas with many positive feedbacks has high bid, so I wait until payment comes through, replace the pilot lights, pack the amp carefully with styrofoam, large bubble wrap, more styrofoam, and a small sheet of plywood across the front, and send it off via UPS.

So far so good. Then last week I get an email from this guy stating that I misrepresented the amp and that it was "broken in the middle on the top." He also said he wanted his money back. Now, if you are familiar with Marantz 15s, you'll know "breaking" the top middle would involve tearing into a sheet of 3/16" aluminum. Dented I could see, but broken? Anyway, I told him to keep all the packing for UPS and to send me pictures.

No pictures. He wants my home phone number so we can "discuss" it. No word on the packing material one way or another.

He has now kicked it up to ebay, and they have put a $500 freeze on my Paypal account. In his complaint, I misrepresented the "item" (note it's never the "Marantz" or "the amp," just "the item") and the breakage has migrated from the middle to a corner. I am also "not responding," even though I am sending him multiple emails. He offers pictures but doesn't send them. Still nothing on the packing. I look up his feedback. Every thing is good. Everything is also purses, jewelry and other things in the $10-$20 range. Why is he suddenly buying $500 classic audio?

Further investigation - Paypal has ebay account as one address, but the payment coming from another, un US verified, person. This was the address I was told to send it to, and that's where it went. UPS says so. I have sent him the tracking number.

Got email from him last night. Says he can't send me email and suggests it's my fault. Think about that for a minute.

ebay's solution is for him to send the amp back to me (a concept which has not crossed the mind of the guy in Texas) inspect it for three days, and then give him his money back. First of all, this violates the first Ferengi Rule of Acquisition (sorry, non Star Trek types) but more important, doesn't this mean, he can damage the amp, or switch it with something else, and send it back to me, claiming it doesn't look like the pictures, or has different serial numbers, or says "Emerson" on it because I misrepresented it? I'm not liking how this is playing. If something doesn't happed by the 20th, it goes to ebay for resolution, and they're not noted for their sympathy to the seller.

Any thoughts? Anybody in Houston with a big, ill tempered dog?

[Schu]

Any thoughts? Anybody in Houston with a big, ill tempered dog?

unfortunately, you are probably screwed.

I am not saying the buyer is not telling the truth, but this can pan out in a few ways that are scam based. they can send it back to you with legitimate damage(no scam)... they can send it back to you with a different identical unit in place of the one you sent... they ca send it back to you with a completely different unit in place of the one you sent... if any of those happen, take pictures.

perhaps the unit was damaged in transit??? I hope you had Insurance as it's always the shippers responsibility even if the buyer does not want to pay for that extra insurance.

Modern eBay is almost always going to find in favor of the buyer.

one good thing is if you escalate the case, the buyer has a limited amount of time in which to respond and take corrective actions(shipping back to you)

[CaptnBob]

I did insure it of course, with signature required. However, UPS won't touch it unless you have the packing, and this guy has not responded one way or the other about that.

[cubdog]

All I can do is wish you luck. Sounds like this guy is an *** and a scam artist. I hope I'm wrong.

cubdog

[Pete H]

I hate it for you. I've purchased many items on e-bay and have had a handful of them damaged, by shipping or just bad prep for shipping, but in all cases, I've worked with the seller to document the problem, get the shipper involved when applicable and work out fair resolutions with the shipper or the seller. I'm a builder and at this moment have over $150,000 in receivables from idiots that are trying to scam me out of money even though there are clear contracts in place that describe in detail what they are building and in my case as in yours, all the burden is on me including the legal fees to collect what I'm due. This, unfortunately, is the world we live in. Hope you get it worked out and screw e-bay for continuing to place all the blame on the seller.

[biglaz]

Yes you do. Try these suggestions and hold your ground with E-Bay pointing out the buyer is not cooperating.

Do you remember any significant marks for identification and or the serial number. Have the buyer send it back, do not let the buyer keep the unit no matter what. Examine it closely for those identifying marks and or serial number. Also, follow up with UPS. However, unless you used brand new box etc. it is hard to get them to pay off.

Respond to E-bay asking them to read all messages between you and the buyer, I hope you communicated via E-Bay message center.

Hope this helps.

[CaptnBob]

The nitwit threw away all the packing material. He just emailed me to tell me he can't email me. Right. I have many pictures (including one of the serial number) but this will still be no defense as he is saying I advertised one thing and sent him another.

[ForteSeeker]

I came across this link:

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/general-car-audio-discussion-no-question-dumb/83957-andy4879-ebay-scammer-does-charge-backs.html

and it appears that you have encountered another similar sort of ebay scam artist.

At some stage you should call the cops if it goes totally south. Just try to pressure the holy hell out of this d-bag.

Consolation may be that you were rooked out of only a certain sum - there are far greater frauds out there as we all know.

If it doesn't right itself (this apparent fraud) let this stand as a cautionary tale for all of us scrupulous, honest people...

Best of luck, amigo...

PS Ebay should somehow offer you some sort of consolation or compensation, I think...

[Guest " "]

buyer protection is really a 45 day no question return policy. it doesn't matter what you put in your listing or what you say in your listing, all buyers have to do is wait until day 44 and sunmitt a not as discribed claim, which can be groundless and subjective. Typically, once the claim gets esculated for resolution at ebay, ebay sends the buyer a return label and once tracking shows delivery to you, ebay refunds the custormers money. you indicated a 3 day inspection period, that is a first..never hear that one before. NOW, aside from you losing shipping both ways, and the issues about amp swapping and customer damaging the amp, you stand to loose furthur if you plan to be a long time seller in that the track record on needed ebay to intervene on your customer service issues will result in you loosing and discounts or incentives that effect you cost to do buisness on ebay. if you are not willing to jump in and issue blind refunds and trust the customer to return the item to you after you refund their money, ebay does not want you as a seller.

[CaptnBob]

Thanks, folks, I feel better just for the support. It appears the policy now is: he sends me the amp, or whatever he claims I sent him. I can inspect it for three days, and then have the money sucked out of my paypal account. Theoretically he is supposed to pay for return shipping. Or I can wait and let it float up to ebay for adjudication. I haven't heard from him since he told me he threw away the box and packing, and I replied and said that made everything harder.

I don't want to be specific, but I do have pictures of some "anomalies" which pretty are specific to that particular 15. Still, everything is blocked by the "He advertised one thing and sent another" ploy.

The thing is, if he'd just emailed me and said, "I'm sorry, it's just not going to work for me," I would have taken it back.

[artarama]

NOW, aside from you losing shipping both ways, and the issues about amp swapping and customer damaging the amp, you stand to loose furthur if you plan to be a long time seller in that the track record on needed ebay to intervene on your customer service issues will result in you loosing and discounts or incentives that effect you cost to do buisness on ebay. if you are not willing to jump in and issue blind refunds and trust the customer to return the item to you after you refund their money, ebay does not want you as a seller.

Welcome to Retail!

The customer is always right. No questions asked returns. Thanks WalMart! Ebay is following their example and "customer demand".

You would hope people would have some ethics, but unethical people don't.

Business practices aside, this sounds like a total scam. Sorry Bob.

Buyer beware! Seller beware! Hey where is Audiogon??

[CaptnBob]

My grandfather used to work at Famous Barr - St. Louis' equivilent of Macy's. He said it was not uncommon for people to buy entire sets of china and silverware, use them for a party, and them return them - unwashed - for a full refund which was always granted.

This was during the 1930s. The more things change ...

[Quiet_Hollow]

My grandfather used to work at Famous Barr - St. Louis' equivilent of Macy's. He said it was not uncommon for people to buy entire sets of china and silverware, use them for a party, and them return them - unwashed - for a full refund which was always granted.

Try that with an automotive dealership over a new car. []

[T.H.E. Droid]

Seems pretty obvious that you've got a shipping damage issue at best, or at worst, an outright attempt to scam you.

The best defense is to always attempt to be reasonable. If the buyer claims something that had to happen in shipping, it's reasonable for them to get in touch with the shipper and make a claim. If they refuse, that's an obvious sign of a scam. So is refusing to provide photos to you and ebay/paypal of the shipping container and amp. Another sign of a scam is any mismatch between account addresses and sudden unusual buying activity. Often this involves phishing emails and a hijacked account.

In the future, take a few pages from someone who sold a LOT of expensive stuff on ebay and never got ripped off.......

1. NEVER ship until a payment has been received IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT. Would you sell to someone you don't know face-to-face and take a personal check? Of course not. Shipping before payment has cleared into your bank account is the same thing.

2. NEVER leave money in paypal. If they don't have it in your paypal account, they can't play their games. Remember paypal is not a bank and is not required to play by the same rules.

3. Always pack carefully AND take photos when expensive items are involved. I think, in general, ebay and paypal (which are the same company I believe) are very aware of scamming and the techniques involved and will recognize a scam attempt.

4. Never ship anywhere but the confirmed Paypal address. People who wanted something shipped elsewhere had to convince me and were not allowed to pay with paypal, but had to pay with cash (like a western union transfer) or Postal Money Order. (that can be cashed at the post office.)

[Guest " "]

Seems pretty obvious that you've got a shipping damage issue at best, or at worst, an outright attempt to scam you.

The best defense is to always attempt to be reasonable. If the buyer claims something that had to happen in shipping, it's reasonable for them to get in touch with the shipper and make a claim. If they refuse, that's an obvious sign of a scam. So is refusing to provide photos to you and ebay/paypal of the shipping container and amp. Another sign of a scam is any mismatch between account addresses and sudden unusual buying activity. Often this involves phishing emails and a hijacked account.

In the future, take a few pages from someone who sold a LOT of expensive stuff on ebay and never got ripped off.......

1. NEVER ship until a payment has been received IN YOUR BANK ACCOUNT. Would you sell to someone you don't know face-to-face and take a personal check? Of course not. Shipping before payment has cleared into your bank account is the same thing.

2. NEVER leave money in paypal. If they don't have it in your paypal account, they can't play their games. Remember paypal is not a bank and is not required to play by the same rules.

3. Always pack carefully AND take photos when expensive items are involved. I think, in general, ebay and paypal (which are the same company I believe) are very aware of scamming and the techniques involved and will recognize a scam attempt.

4. Never ship anywhere but the confirmed Paypal address. People who wanted something shipped elsewhere had to convince me and were not allowed to pay with paypal, but had to pay with cash (like a western union transfer) or Postal Money Order. (that can be cashed at the post office.)

5. If you ship something back to a seller using an address he gives you in an email or ebay message....watch out....biggest loop hole to beat a not as described claim aside from never signing for the return is sending to the wrong address. Get a return merchandise shipping label provided to you via the shipping service used by the seller or provided by ebay after esculation.

[oldtimer]

I'm surprised anyone deals with ebay anymore. It's been at least a few years since the site was more about scams than honest transactions. It's been at least that long since i took the risk.

[CaptnBob]

Well, there I was, thinking things were going to work out. I hadn't heard from the buyer in five days, she was ignoring my emails, and had no apparent intention of returning anything.

Then, two minutes before the case expireds, she emails me, saying she was sending it back. So we'll see what the next chapter is. I told her I wanted it packed and shipped by UPS, to minimize any further complications. Sigh.

It is a woman, by the way. The nice Vietnamese lady who runs a restaurant near here confirms it's a female name. She also says to give it up and walk away as quickly as possible. Probably good advice.