colterphoto1 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Thorens TD125MK II, just back from shop, fresh Shure M97eX cartridge installed. Through my Jubilee system, can hear crackling, buzzing sound though HF horn. So noticiable that I can hear it 15' across room. Same system MMF5 is dead quiet. Go back to turntable repair shop, Guy plugs it into his Marantz/Polk system, same buzz/crackle at lower volume. He's got a TD124 right out of repair- IT MAKES THE SAME NOISE.. I can't believe that this is 'standard' for this line of well-respected tables if so many of you guys use them. If anyone has either of these tables, do you get a background noise or is yours dead quiet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennconti Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 In your testing you didn't use anything the same between the two setups (maybe the same album, cable or cartridge) except the TDK125 and TDK124 model types? Maybe both the TDK125 and TDK124 need the same repair done that is typical to the Thorens line and the tech didn't notice his problem but you noticed yours. There has to be a fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Michael, My 124 is dead quiet. What cables are you using? Mine have a ground wire that attaches from the base of the tonarm - there's a small screw next to the rca jacks - to the ground on your amp/preamp/whatever (I believe the cables are made specifically for the 124) but I've never heard of a crackling sound due to lack of ground. It's always a buzz or hum. There are a couple Thorens gurus around here that you might want to email. Allan Songer comes to mind. Mike Lindsey has done a lot with his 124 so he might be able to offer an opinion. BTW - It makes sense that it would be louder on your more efficient Jubs (but I'm sure you knew that). Good luck buddy. I feel for ya. Don't give up! I have a piece of gear I've been tempted to smash with a sledgehammer more than once (think of fruit). It currently sounds terrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 mine have been retrofitted with what appears to be good quality cables. There is no ground wire. At The Turntable Shop (there I'll name the guy here) the 124 he was working on did not have one either. Both made the identical crackly buzzing noise. NOT HUM, let me make that clear, it sounded more like some electronic component sizzling out but I'm not electronics wizard. And yes I commented to the guy about how effiicient my system is. Seems I have a couple options- spend a couple thousand on a new turntable/preamp rig to 'match' the quality of my speakers. Or just scrap all the good stuff, plug this table into my HK430 and Khorns and call it a day. Option B puts several thousand dollars in my pocket. I hate to go there but yes I've thought of the sledgehammer route. This Thorens has cost me too much sanity, I doubt if it's ever going to be right. And no I'll never get the money out of it that I've got into it. Is a 125 just junky? it's clearly a different decade and completely different design than the much sought after 124. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 Christopher, I bought this through Forum from a member in FL years ago. It's been a headache. Mike Lindsay was kind enough to do a fantastic job of packaging/shipping but right away the speed was off. Scott from Ohio (another Forum member) worked on the electronics and got that sorted out. I was never really happy with the stock Thorens tonearm and felt it had some play (turns out this is normal) and never took the time to have a proper cartridge installed (until GaryMD sent me one) and I took it to what I think is the only specialized turntable shop in my city (I could be wrong). You guys have a been a LOT of help but I lack the funds to put an SME tonearm on it, but a MM cart and preamp, etc. If I had a little faith that this might work out right might help. Someone put new cables on it and there is no ground wire, Tech guy says 'it's grounded through the RCA negative) but this has not been the case on any other turntable I've seen. Other than the 124 at his shop didn't have one either. WTF??? Maybe I'll just stick with my MDF MMF5 - at least it's quiet. It may not get the oohs and aahhs that a truly audiophile or esoteric table gets but it's playable and I don't fear that it'll tear up my records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artarama Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Is a 125 just junky? it's clearly a different decade and completely different design than the much sought after 124. No! The 125 is definately not junky. It is an excellent table that plays very well, AND can take a lot of abuse and neglete and still sound good. You have a problem. If you have reached the end of the road with this tech, try another or maybe just let the table sit for a while, you have others, and take this project on after your understandable frustration has wained. Crackle, Buzz, Hum descriptive but hard to diagnose over the internet. It can be fixed. I have a 125 bone stock that was not well cared for before I got it (now very pampered), Dead quite up to 12 o'clock with 180 wpc on Khorns. (nothing playing obviously) The devil is in the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 31, 2012 Author Share Posted March 31, 2012 there are definitley components of this noise above 400 hz as the Jubilees have steep crossover and at nominal volume levels it's pretty clear through the HF horn. I found another tech nearby that works on audiophile stuff (not junky pioneer turntables scattered all over the floor of dusty shop) $80 but I've got a money pit now might as well get it working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 My TD 125-II with grado cart is nice and quiet. (or was until I managed to destroy the motor, so now it is out of service.) Turntable weak spot is the cable system. The output is very small and any cable problems can cause quite a bit of noise. Also, the TD 125 motor/electronics design can create some noise if there are any bad grounds or cable problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Turntable weak spot is the cable system. The output is very small and any cable problems can cause quite a bit of noise. This certainly sounds like the problem. It ain't a hum or mechanical noise IMO. The cables and jacks should be replaced, which may entail de-soldering the old ones at the TT end and soldering in the new, if they don't simply plug into simple jacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Micheal, both the tonearm and the turntable chassis usually need to be grounded. Your turntable repair guy should know these things. But he wouldn't be the first person I've run into in recent years that apparently doesn't know what he's doing (sorry about the slam, but these kind of issues are totally uncalled for if the person actually knows what they are doing). Here's a link to all kinds of manuals and service info for Thorens (and other turntables). http://www.vinylengine.com/library/thorens/td125.shtml I've had 3 Thorens over the past 40 years with various tonearms on them and never had these kind of issues. The vinylengine link was useful to me for many modifications and trouble shooting, like on the TD126 I currently have ~ it had a semi automatic lift on the Thorens TP16 arm that was connected to the platter start/stop control that I wanted to disable so I could put a SME III arm on. No problem, they have circuit diagrams for the electronics and all.There should be diagrams there for your turntable showing the proper grounding locations. And as Larry mentioned, make sure all the other connections are solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Michael.... I've owned many a table..... The 125 is no slouch and should be quite....big bUTTTT .... to get one (or any good vintage TT) to play with the big boys, you need to spend mega bucks modernizing it... Dave at Vinyl nirvana does a great job ...... A typical maxed out 124 build all in costs about $3500.... I eventually want one and thats what I've researched and budgeted. a maxed out 125 goes about $2k. lots of steps in between Now, at the risk of making enemies i will speak my mind. I want one for an all vintage system for nostalgia sake.... but I have no illusions that a $3500 TD 124 can come anywhere close to the modern system I have now.... I've run side by side tests ..... My opinion that being said.... box up the TD 125 and all your vinyl, send it to me, and stick with digital formats, both of us will sleep better! [] [] [] [] [] Seriously, you need to send it off to a really good tech who knows what they are doing and give you stages/options of upgrades... it's a forty + year old design , lots of things you can do to improve once it's "stable" .... good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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