jreene Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Hello all, I have a question as to which way I want to go. I currently run a Denon AVR 1910 with 90w x 7 of power, and currently I have 2 x RF-35s, an RC-64, and RB-15s. The denon doesnt have enough power to really utilize the RC-64 or RF-35s, so I am seriously looking into emotiva amps, but unfortunately my receiver doesnt have pre-outs. I know I want an emotiva amp, probably an xPA-3, but would you guys recommend a mid range receiver with pre-outs, like an onkyo, or would you recommend I purchase a used UMC. What would be the key differences? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 Also...if I do choose to get a UMC-1, will I be able to power my surround speakers with my denon? Essentially using it as an amp, and then power my front 3 with an XPA-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Power: The Denon is rated at 90W into 8 ohms and 125W into 6 ohms, but surely not all channels driven. The XPA-3 is rated at 200 watts into 8 ohms and 300 watts into 4 ohms with all chanels driven; unfortunately it doesn't double its power output going from 8 to 4 ohms, meaning that it can't hold the same voltage at 4 ohms (but I guess few amplifiers do). Nor it is rated at 2 ohms (many pro amps are). Will the change be noticeable? Depends. Are you driving your system close to the maximum of the receiver now? If you rarely exceed, say, -10 dB, then probably not. If you are driving it to the max, then the extra 3 to 6 dB will show. UMC-1 versus Denon AVR-1910 used as pre-pro... don't really know. Do you use Audyssey MultEQ from the Denon? I have no idea how Emo-Q compares. Can you use the Denon as an amplifier? Sure. You would use several of the 7-channel analog input, bypass all processing and set the volume to something close to 0 dB for calibration and never adjust it again. I use one channel of my old receiver as a sub amp exactly this way. It's cool because if I want more sub gain, I just turn up the volume on that receiver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 I do use the Audyssey MultEQ and its nice, but im sure the EmoQ would be comparable. I definitely push the Denon pretty hard, and I just feel like the difference in SQ would be worth the UMC-1 + XPA-3. I havent seen many XPA-3s on audiogon though. My problem would probably be patience to wait on a deal for the XPA-3 haha. Im one of those guys who likes to slowly spend money, and slowly upgrade. My budget as of right now is about $7-800 for both the processor and the amp, I can get the UMC for 250 also. So ive got about 500 left for whatever EMotiva amp I can find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 I do use the Audyssey MultEQ and its nice, but im sure the EmoQ would be comparable. Not from what I'm been reading on the net. emoQ looks to be okay for seeting levels, distances and crossover frequency (the basics stuff) but not so much at room EQ from what I see. Disclaimer: I have never used any of the Audyssey offerings amd use a miniDSP to EQ my sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 10, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 10, 2012 I do use the Audyssey MultEQ and its nice, but im sure the EmoQ would be comparable. I've heard great things about Audyssey, but IMO, EmoQ is pretty weak. I found it not to be very accurate. Most use it as a base setting and then have to do quite a bit of EQing. The levels were even off on mine. Im one of those guys who likes to slowly spend money, and slowly upgrade. That's a very wise thing to do. I tend to do that myself. I can get the UMC for 250 also. When I was debating between the UMC-1 and the Harman Kardon AVR3600, I was able to sell my Yamaha RX-V1800 for $500 and could get the UMC-1 for $499. Since there was no out of pocket, I knew it was worth it to give it a shot. IMO, $250 would make the UMC-1 worth a try. You could always sell it for that if you didn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 10, 2012 Author Share Posted April 10, 2012 I wish I could listen to someone's set-up with separates. Ive never heard a system with separates...I just dont know if the $800 for a UMC + Amp would be justified for a marginal upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 Marginal upgrade over a low end Denon?? I don't really want to suggest anything, except you need to audition some gear when you get the chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danzo Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Back when i had UMC-1, i did not mind EMO-Q at all; It sets some parameters spot-on, and gives you freedom to trim channels live; that and SPL meter kept me fairly happy with movies; It was handshake quirks i could not live with, but it might be fixed with new firmware by now; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2012 gives you freedom to trim channels live; Definitely love that feature. To temporarily be able to adjust your trim levels on the fly. They revert back to your saved settings after you shut off the UMC-1 so you don't have to worry about messing up your normal settings. It was handshake quirks i could not live with, but it might be fixed with new firmware by now; I probably should try out the new firmware (hesitant due to the nightmare it might be to perform the update). To me, the handshake quirks are not a problem. It takes maybe 3 - 5 seconds for the UMC-1 to handshake with the audio and video. It doesn't look pretty, not a smooth transition when you switch from one source to another but that doesn't bother me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Welp, I ordered a B-stock UPA-1 mono and Im gunna pick up the UMC for 200$. For now, I could only afford one UPA-1, but im going to hook it up to my RC-64 and I expect a nice difference. The UMC seller said he had updated everything with the new firmware. I cant wait to get everything set up! Im totally a sucker for the blue lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Good luck! Let me know how you like going from the AVR to the UMC-1. I am currently on the fence about that as well. For now, my Pioneer is getting by. I think it was one of their first model that had support for Dolby HD and DTS MA so it probably is about time for an upgrade. It sounds like you got a pretty good deal on that. I am thinking you might have to do some tinkering with the UMC-1 when you do get everything hooked up. With that much more power running to your center, it might just put everything else you have to shame. I know when I first got mine and before I recalibrated the AVR, it was all I could hear. Also, we wanna see some pictures when you get it setup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 16, 2012 IMO, for $200, you have absolutely nothing to lose to give it a try. You can EASILY sell it for $250 in the Emotiva forums if you find you do not like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Youthman, What has your experience been with the UMC-1? Ive read a couple of your posts on it...any tips on set-up/settings/tricks for a soon-to-be owner? Im not experienced with the EQ as I have only used Audyssey with Denon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 16, 2012 Overall, I'm very pleased with the UMC-1. It's not perfect but there are no "quirks" that make it a deal breaker for me. I've never had it lock up, never had any center channel dropouts. My only "issues" have been when I first got it, sometimes the speakers would make a soft "pop" when the HDMI would try and handshake. It only did it for a month or so. Haven't heard it since. Mine does take 5 - 10 seconds when switching from one source to another. The only other thing is when I play a song from the HD, the audio drops for about 2 seconds so you miss hearing the first few beats of the song. I've just learned that I hit play, then 2 seconds later before the song starts, I hit back on my remote and the song starts as it should. Again, to me, these are minor quirks but still IMO it's a very solid unit. I'm using the next to the latest Firmware. I've been very hesitant to update to the latest since I've read for many, it's a nightmare to update the firmware. To be honest, I stink at EQ. IMO, the EmoQ didn't do that great of a job. I ran the EmoQ and had to tweak distances as it didn't measure them totally accurate. The settings it made for the EQ just didn't sound that great to me so I ran it again and saved it as another preset and adjusted the settings myself. What I found is I have all of the bands above the 1/2 way line (which isn't a proper EQ). I really need to do some research on how to EQ manually using REQ or just by using my SPL meter and test tones. My Yamaha used YPAO so I have never had the opportunity to use Audyssey but most say it does a really great job out of the box. Tips, just get into the menu and look around. It's very intuitive and easy to understand. As soon as I placed my order, I watched their tutorial videos while I was waiting on my unit to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 Thanks, I might end up asking some questions, but usually I can pick up on stuff relatively easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted April 16, 2012 Ask all the questions you want. We are here to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jreene Posted April 20, 2012 Author Share Posted April 20, 2012 Alright, so I got my UPA-1 and UMC-1 hooked up today, and my intitial thoughts are: The UPA-1 has a TON of power. The UMC-1 is much more complicated then a mid range AVR. I have been tweaking the UMC-1 a lot, and the thing that annoys me the most is when switching HDMI sources, my UMC takes at LEAST 30 seconds to switch and get everything together. Youthman, what can I do to help this? I used EMOQ and it actually had decent specs come out, but i had to tweak some minor things. All in all it was an upgrade, but added a LOT of compexity to my system. Maybe thats just the price of having a high end system. Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Congrats, 3-5 seconds is about normal for me, sometimes 10 seconds to switch and be stable.It all comes down to the gear you have hooked up, some is friendly and some not.Go to the Emotiva forum and ask for help, they're pretty friendly and know how to deal with many issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vital Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 my UMC takes at LEAST 30 seconds to switch and get everything together.Do you have the latest firmware update? My handshake is very fast and very stable after the last firmware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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