Does anybody Bi-Amp there Speakers?.

[derrickdj1]

Cask05, that is consistent with what I have read and never tried it up to now, lol. Maybe it is placebo effect? I am lost for words on why DLPXII music and the system sounding better with the MCACC on compared to before. For now I am just going to leave since I am lazy today. That was a great post on the benefit of bi-amping. Thanks!

[Islander]

Using a bi-amp or tri-amp with an outboard filter before the amp has a lot to recommend for the additional cost. Removing a large inductor from the woofer circuit. Removing any interaction of the driver impedance from the filter’s response. Significant reduction of amp distortion under high power conditions. Generally speaking though, the cost may be high for the perceived benefit. Really depends on your application and needs. Another thing is that generic filters do not allow for specific response characteristics that the original passive design either offset or compensated for. For instance the diffraction effect of narrow baffles. Or the rising response of a woofer. Or the falling response of a mid horn.

It is fun to try a different approach but I would suggest taking some time for consideration before ripping out a well designed passive network matching all drivers into a well-balanced system and replacing same with a one-size-fits all filter.

This is why it's so great that Roy Delgado has tested and published settings for the electronic crossovers, usually Electro-Voice Dx38s, that are used when bi-amping Jubilees and JubScalas. Trying to find the right settings by ear at home would not come close to the factory lab-tested settings and would not sound nearly as good.

The K402 and K510 tweeter horns need some complex EQing, but using the Dx38 with recommended settings makes it simple. In my own experience, it also makes the output from the La Scala bass horn much smoother and more pleasant to listen to.

[RRFL]

Using a bi-amp or tri-amp with an outboard filter before the amp has a lot to recommend for the additional cost. Removing a large inductor from the woofer circuit. Removing any interaction of the driver impedance from the filters response. Significant reduction of amp distortion under high power conditions. Generally speaking though, the cost may be high for the perceived benefit. Really depends on your application and needs. Another thing is that generic filters do not allow for specific response characteristics that the original passive design either offset or compensated for. For instance the diffraction effect of narrow baffles. Or the rising response of a woofer. Or the falling response of a mid horn.

It is fun to try a different approach but I would suggest taking some time for consideration before ripping out a well designed passive network matching all drivers into a well-balanced system and replacing same with a one-size-fits all filter.

This is why it's so great that Roy Delgado has tested and published settings for the electronic crossovers, usually Electro-Voice Dx38s, that are used when bi-amping Jubilees and JubScalas. Trying to find the right settings by ear at home would not come close to the factory lab-tested settings and would not sound nearly as good.

The K402 and K510 tweeter horns need some complex EQing, but using the Dx38 with recommended settings makes it simple. In my own experience, it also makes the output from the La Scala bass horn much smoother and more pleasant to listen to.

The K69/K-510 LaScala Bi-amped solution is an ideal upgrade and that the crossover settings are available is the icing on the cake.

[Chris A]

Cask05, that is consistent with what I have read and never tried it up to now, lol. Maybe it is placebo effect? I am lost for words on why DLPXII music and the system sounding better with the MCACC on compared to before. For now I am just going to leave since I am lazy today. That was a great post on the benefit of bi-amping. Thanks!

Well, here is another view into bi-wiring from a source that I respect.

Chris

[dtel]

I currently have a system that is bi-amp'ed. I'm very pleased with the result.

Actively bi-amped and also very pleased with the result, if it's good enough for the most interesting man in the world, it's good enough for a p-on like me.

[derrickdj1]

Very nice article on what is actually achieved with bi-amping. Passive x-o waste a lot energy and decrease the overall headroom in a system. The voltage demands were explained very well and also lend support on why people used power amps in comparison to some avr's. Bi-wiring has a very small benefit compared to bi-amping. The theorectical benefits of bi-wiring may not reach the auditory threshold to be appreciated. Bi-amping takes a little skill to do correctly and should be given some thought befor venturing into that next level of audio Nirvana. It is interesting how much money people will spend on speakers and skimp on the power part of the equation. I remeber reading, spend 1/3 of the budget on the power side of the system. Thanks Chris!

[Quiet_Hollow]

I remeber reading, spend 1/3 of the budget on the power side of the system.

Spending some time in the books to understand all that's going on under the hood ain't a bad idea either. []

[RRFL]

Cask05, that is consistent with what I have read and never tried it up to now, lol. Maybe it is placebo effect? I am lost for words on why DLPXII music and the system sounding better with the MCACC on compared to before. For now I am just going to leave since I am lazy today. That was a great post on the benefit of bi-amping. Thanks!

Well, here is another view into bi-wiring from a source that I respect.

Chris

This is a link on voltage drop for mains cables:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electric-wire-voltage-drop-d_1688.html

In our commercial installations we sometimes have long cable runs between the speakers and the amplifier rack so we TRI-WIRE each connection.

We went to the electrical wholesaler and measured the resistance on various roles of cable.

The plan was to achieve zero ohms in the cable run for the lowest possible cost.

Our competitors use cheap crapy wire and get sloppy sound.

We found the best solution was to use the very common 32amp house hold mains cable. It has 3 conductors "Active" Neutral" Earth".

For each of the 2 required speaker wires we use a single run of this 3 conductor cable by trimming back the Neutral and Earth on each end of one cable about 24inches shorter than the active. Then making a cut in the insulation on the active again 24inches from the end so we can solder the Neutral and Earth to the Active and then the Acitve has a 24inch tail making it easy to slip into speaker terminals. For the other wire just repeat leaving the Neutral 24inches longer. The picture attached shows the colour coordinated tails going to the speaker terminals but unfortunately the transition from 3 cores to 1 is out of the picture. The bottom 2 amps are bridged for subwoofer each KPT-684 and the top 2 amps drive 4 KP-362's 1 channel each. This system has been in constant operation since December 2000 without any failures.

The 2 cables run loosely beside each other between the speakers and the amps.

We have done listening tests and there is a difference. If for example your speaker is 4ohm and your wire is 2ohm only 2/3 of the power gets to the speaker. Also the damping provided by the amplifier is degraded.

[DanO55]

Yes

[Boxx]

I currently have a system that is bi-amp'ed. I'm very pleased with the result.

Actively bi-amped and also very pleased with the result, if it's good enough for the most interesting man in the world, it's good enough for a p-on like me.

Yes, and my 10 gallon hat holds 13 gallons of water...

I export cigars to Cuba...

My pinatas fight back...

My guacamole recipe is responsible for the phrase "Holy guacamole!"