anarchist Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Read an interesting article that states there are a variety of reports showing LucasFilms has sold a 60% stake in THX to...Creative Labs. The report mentions the brand has been devalued for some of their 'lower' standards they introduced and speculate the brand may be further devalued by this development. Creative Labs primarily makes sound cards for PC's. It certainly is not an authority, in my opinion, on developing the best home theaters or articulating good quality assurance standards for audio/speaker manufacturers. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 If this is true, i bet the reason for Creative Labs venture into this is so that it can THX certify its crappy soudn cards and speakers. So, what will be the new standard? THX is out of the window, possible, what next? Geez Lucas! where did you read this? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 First he ruins Star Wars, not THX. THX is just so unfriendly and "unobtainable" And whats the point? If there were kickass THX modes, I would be interested. I think THX is not to long for this world. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oogins Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Here's the link: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=499199 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 seems like a good match. we need a new one that advocates standards for big more full range speaks along w/ a sub for ht. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmidty Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 The forum should start some type of new certification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 Hmmm, in my senior citizen naiveté, I thought the THX concept was a brick short of a full load... and said so right on this Forum. Now, Creative Labs, a company based in Singapore seems to have picked up a 60% interest for $8 million... not even serious chump change by Star Wars revenue standards. Singapore, a government that canes its citizens for minor offenses and publishes a book on how to date to increase the local birthrate, has a new claim to fame... it is home to the company that proposes to tell us what theater standards commercially and at home will be. I certainly hope that THX doesn't have the strangle hold on what happens in the motion picture industry, DVD mixers, and who knows what else. Whew, Georgie Boy Lucas sure sold out the Tom Holman eXperiment (THX) cheap... I wonder what this will do for the future of dipole speakers. As admitted earlier, many things that THX did to bring the industry together were beneficial... but with the rise of the dark side of dictatorship... credibility waned... at least in this Forum member's opinion. Somehow I don't think Hollywood is going to take down their famous hillside sign... and put one up that reads "SINGAPORE" anytime soon. This whole "majority interest sale" turn of events is so bizarre that it would seem to be a hoax... but so far the Lucas crowd doesn't seem to be commenting. It is nice to see some dissenting opinion on the overall value of THX as being less than it should have been. -HornED PS: Thanks Crash, for pointing out that the THX dictatorial idol has proven to have "feats" of clay. This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-28-2002 at 07:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 quote: boa12 seems like a good match. we need a new one that advocates standards for big more full range speaks along w/ a sub for ht. are you referring to a Cambridge/THX relationship? Creative boughtout Cambridge to better its name in the speaker business. I think this is not a good match. I think they are going to use the THX legacy (humph) to their advantage to get people with little knowlege of speakers to buy their stuff soley on the THX logo (err.... BOSE). JMLOHO ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted May 28, 2002 Share Posted May 28, 2002 What really hacks me off about the whole THX extravaganza - is that THX is not a technology - It is a flipping standard- which means that the vendors have to comply to a certain set of Xs and Os on a check sheet that they have to check off in order to be compliant. There is no such thing as a THX decoder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 IMHO THX in theaters will continue to evolve and thrive as long as Lucas is making films. It could well be around longer than his digital "prints" if theaters don't start installing the projection hardware for them soon. I'd sure like to see the latest Star Wars movie as he intended it to be seen, but the nearest theater with a digital projector is 100 miles away. As for consumer THX, it has always been little more than marketing hype and a way for Lucas to generate additional revenue off the THX trademark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 .....And on this day, let it be known to all that I mandated DTS-ES as the new standard by which all new DVD's, receivers, processors and movies shall be manufactured and encoded. My vote goes for DTS! Come sit in my theater with my DTS demo discs and tell me what I'm missing?? For the love of HT, can't we just settle on DTS-ES and DD-EX??? Serves Lucas right for his elitist, self-serving, non-DVD sharing, keeping the Star Wars triology to himself greedy man mentality. I love his movies btw, just pissed he won't put them on DVD yet (Triology) OK, that's my OP/ED piece, any questions? ------------------ My system(s): Great Room--- KLF-30's Bi-wired KLF-C7 KSP-S6's Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable Audioquest interconnects Niles SPS-4 speaker switch box Niles wall plates Niles in-wall volume controls Marantz SR-8000 Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer Mitsubishi 35" TV Mitsubishi VCR Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers Panamax DBS-8 Surge Protector Master Bath--- Klipsch IC-525's in Master Bath 13" Sony Wega in Master Bath Niles Wall volume control in M/Bath Basement HT----- SE-13HD LCD Projector Da-Lite 52" x 92" High contrast screen Chorus II Mains KLF-C7 Center KSP-S6 Surrounds KSW-15 Front sub KSW-100 Rear sub Pioneer VSX-810 DD/DTS-ES receiver JVC-XV-FA90BK 7 Disc progressive DVD Panamax MAX1000 Surge protector/line conditoner Comcast Digital Cable Philips S-VHS VR-1010 1 Lava Lamp for Ambience Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 justin, just meant imho thx belongs w/ a company that makes tiny lil speakers. couldn't really say what their standards are except they're largely responsible for the too high fixed crossover point for speaker/sub - as many know my pet peeve. fine for tiny speaks & though workable w/ large speaks, not ideal. though the fixed 80hz point is not a standard, just a guideline as i understand talking to makers. my pre/pro f.e. is thx ultra certified but still provides for adjustable crossover, slopes, etc. just that it tells you when you're at the thx recommended settings such as 80hz (not), 12db/octave high pass slope, so on. as far as their technologies, i don't think there's any marked improvement using them. some subtle changes such as the re-eq that takes a lil of the harshness from the highs of some movies. nothing a simple eq function doesn't do though (like my marantz receiver does basically the same but just calls it ht-eq). i really don't pay much attention to thx at all. more on the specs & features of the equipment itself. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 ah. ic ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Sadly, "THX Certified" is beginning to look like more of a "Take the money and run!" proposition than an august body protecting "honest audio" values for us consumers who, in the end, support the industry. Fortunately, it looks like the audio aspects of the entertainment industry will be again free to evolve better solutions than those allowed in the original THX constraints. Now, perhaps, mixers can go about expanding their art without having multiple dipole speakers fuzz up their art with speaker induced excessive ambience. I doubt that Roadhawg and his bevy of pro mixer friends are not surprised by the continual downgrading of THX in the public eye... as the pros noted the declining interest in quality movies or quality audio being associated with the THX hype. I don't have a problem with honest standards that help a broad cross section of consumers enjoy better sound... but that should not preclude those who want to probe the sonic frontiers to do so. -HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Hello all, While I certainly am dismayed with the idea of Creative having a voice in HT and never thought much about THX, I recognize the problems associated with not having a standards body. quote: Now, perhaps, mixers can go about expanding their art without having multiple dipole speakers fuzz up their art with speaker induced excessive ambience. - HornEd Think about the quote here. The standard was to mix the audio 'knowing' the standard recommended dipoles. There was 'no speaker induced excessive ambience' because that was the target speaker and provided a standard for mixing. What is the target with no standards? Will dipoles work? Will bipoles? Will direct radiators? Will 'stereo' subs be best? Should I use all powered towers? What is the appropriate cross-over point on any particular source? Without any standards governing the mixing, you open the doors to chaos and make for unsatisfactory listening experiences. Movie A may sound phenomenal in your theater but Movie B sucks worse than a $2 hooker. Sure experimentation and revolving equipment may find a compromised solution that sounds good, not great, across a variety of material but you think Joe Sixpack is going to do that? Joe wants plug and play. THX wasn't the answer. No standards aren't the answer either. The industry needs to create a joint standards body that is in no one's pocket which will serve the needs of the consumer and enhance our audio experience. We also need new audio formats that surpass the limitations of Dolby Digital and DTS. Someone first needs to determine if we have maximized their existing potential. Pioneers are a wonderful thing for 'advancing' the art but they certainly don't appeal to a mass-market; just look at how many sheep refuse to throw off the shackles of Microsoft and embrace the freedom of Linux. ------------------ Home Theater KSP 400's KSP C6 KSP S6's Yamaha RXV995 (Current) Bryston 9BST (On the horizon) Bryston SP1.7 (A little further on the horizon) Music Room Heresy's KG4's KSW200 Ella PP EL-34 (Coming soon) This message has been edited by crash827 on 05-29-2002 at 12:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Ahh, yes, Crash, you have showed me once more why cluless can't stand snippets. My posts read in their entirety, including the one you quoted, call attention to the benefit that THX had brought by urging standards... and lament what they have done to the standards process in the name of a fast buck. The "split-THX-standard" and "Creative Labs" sell out is just a further "buck chasing" rather than "standards embracing" tactic. Personally, I think a Home Theater "standard" that mandates mixes that differentiate channels that are for dipoles and channels that are for monopoles denigrates the quality of sound that reaches the consumer. And, that is, of course, a matter of opinion and you are certainly welcome to yours. Mixing to create a beneficial effect using all five base channels (plus whatever corollary channels may be included) is well within the reach of modern mixers and could provide a far greater range of the mixer's art IMHO. Hey, if someone wants to fuzz up their rear channels with dipoles so they can feel they are in the local UA24 THX whoop-de-doo-do digital earache, whatever, have at it. Just don't force my friends and me to be a part of it. From what I hear in the audio recording industry, there is some shaking out and artistic exploration that needs to be done to create a better path to standards issues. One of the problems, of course, is that big bucks organizations like Sony, Dolby and Lucas Films, etc. all want their way... just like they have in so many other computer, audio and video products. Just because the main stream mixing is directed toward five discrete, full-range channels and a LFE track doesn't mean that people who prefer dipole, bipole, tripole or WDST couldn't get their jollies from their preferred equipment. Certainly a sub integrated main tower would also be able to do its thing being fed like that. And preamps could spin off Front Effects and Rear Effects channels from a basic comprehensive mix. And if the markets leads to more channels than five as an exchange for significantly better performances... I will likely go along. This looks like an interesting year to stay alert as to what's happening on the home (theater) front. -HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Is it just me, or are all of us getting fed up with the whoel THX thing? ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Got my favorite nose once again... The point I was trying to make earlier was that THX- certification -in my understanding has nothing to do with the hardware components or the software running on them.. It is a standard..and like ISO or the RFC standards used for communications protocol for the internet it is limited. As opposed to having a dolby or dts decoder there is no decoder- no hardware, or software re-inforcing issue, its a question of "meeting the numbers" and as a number of you serious Klipsch lovers have discovered, the numbers that were meaningful for the heritage species of speakers, really dont apply. And so what is the point ? This message has been edited by cluless on 05-29-2002 at 08:09 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 The point is to make the buyer feel like they are getting the "real thing." I think they have not kept up the standard and it is going out. Really, all you are buying with THX gear is one, a hell of a mark up, and two, someone else's opinion on how it should sound (even though they ARE well qualified) If you listen to music and movies, don't worry about THX. I think it is somthing that is past its prime. BTW, that is a opinion. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 besides equipment standards, thx does offer what's really a mode or post-processing tech that's basically 3 thangs: re-eq, adaptive decorrelation, & timbre matching (just going from memory). but like i said doesn't do much for me. i do use thx mode cause it cuts some of the harshness that might be in the highs of certain movies - makes them a lil less bright as mixes for movies in theaters will up the highs mostly because speakers are behind screens. this is the re-eq function which i think basically drops 6db above some certain high freq point. but i figure if it's there may as well use it since it has a marginal benefit & it's not drastically dif from not using it (w/ normal surround mode). d/k how much it added to the price so can't really comment on the cost/benefit, but i'd say the cost would have to be pretty low to justify. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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