cjmustang69 Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I've recently purchased a nice pair of Belle speakers - made in 1989. These have the AB Crossovers, which I understand are not thought of very highly by the Klipsch community. I've ordered a pair of Crites A/4500 crossovers with their CT125 tweeters. Ultimately, I plan to drive these speakers with a Cary CAD-280SA V12 amp. My preamp is an Audio Research SP16. The Cary amp is pretty flexible as far as tubes - and I'm considering ordering EL34 tubes instead of KT88 tubes. I would appreciate any opinions as to wisdom of using the EL34 tubes over the KT88 tubes and if anyone has experience with a particular EL34 tube which they would recommend I consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 the amp can run EL-34, 6550, KT-66, KT-77, KT-88, KT-90, or 6L6 tubes. My preference would be el-34 or kt-90 tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmustang69 Posted June 3, 2012 Author Share Posted June 3, 2012 Yes - the amp can run all the tubes you listed. I'm glad to see the EL-34 tubes would be one of your preferences. Do you have any experience with SED EL34 C tubes? I've been researching multiple sites, attempting to get a good idea of what others have tried and liked. This tube seems to be mentioned favorably by many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 http://thetubestore.com/el34review.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrfish Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm I use this guy Herbie's tube dampers on my old tube guitar amp and they really make a big difference in the tone and sound of the amplifier... Personally, I would never go without them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 IMHO EL34 will give you a "sweeter" tone. Don't be afraid to try KT90. These are great tubes and in another league compared to KT88. They would probably give you a more powerful sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmustang69 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thank you all for comments regarding my EL34 question. I realize asking for tube recommendations is difficult based on the many factors which influence how a "tube" sounds in a particular system and in a particular room. Now that I have the Belle speakers, their efficiency just blows me away compared to all other speakers I have owned. I believe the Cary amp has significantly more capacity than the Belle speakers require to perform at their best. I believe from what I've read and comments here - the EL34 (or KT77) tubes are what I'll try. I believe I will hear a difference from the EH KT88 tubes I have in the amp from when I purchased it used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 cj... A tube with a lower maximum output may sound better with the Belles, as its linear operating range may more properly be utilized. Still, nothing beats a well designed and built preamp and amp, working well together. I currently use 2A3 amps, which max at a round 3.5 watts. They work well FOR ME, in my system on my La Scalas. Others like much more powerful amps. All of this can depend on the preamp, amp design, the crossover design and your room acoustics. Add in the type of music you listen to and the volume you like. When they all match up, it's magic! [H] I've also used an EL34 powered amp on my LS, and it was fine, but it is undergoing a slow restoration (read: no funds to finish the project...) Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmustang69 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 Marvel, If I had it to do over, I most likely would have a lower powered tube amp for use with the Belle speakers. As with your experience with the 2A3 amps - there are a lot of very satisified Klipsch owners with lower powered tube amps. In the week I've owned my Belle speakers, I've driven them with an Adcom GFA5802 amp through my AR SP16 preamp. Talk about overkill with power. I need to replace the tubes in my Cary amp before I can hook it up to the Belles. (Therefore, the start of this thread ) I have a Sony TAN8550 VFET amp I plan to hook up tomorrow in place of the Adcom. I'm curious to hear how it performs with the Belles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigrfish Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm I use this guy Herbie's tube dampers on my old tube guitar amp and they really make a big difference in the tone and sound of the amplifier... Personally, I would never go without them... Let me give a little more detail...the dampers (not this model but one designed specifically for guitar amplifiers) caused the tone of the amplifier to be sweeter and it had MUCH more clarity and detail to the sound. It made the amplifier sound so much better...words fail me to describe the difference. Tube-based distortion (which is a very desirable phenomenon in guitar amplifiers) became much more smooth, creamy, and controlled. The overall result of using the dampers only on the EL 84 power tubes that I chose with much concern and care from a Europoean source called "Tube Amp Doctor"( I understand they were Soviet-built clones/copies of an extinct Mullard design) was so remarkable that it caused me to revisit the tone circuits of my guitars and redesign the tonal filters to better take advantage of my "new" amp. IMHO, if you ignore these tube dampers you would be doing yourself a disservice. To get this much improvement from such an inexpensive add-on/modification is un-heard-of in the world of high-end audio. I have no reason to think you would not have a similar experience with tube audio amplifiers. Good luck and happy listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmustang69 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I thought I would let you know outcome of my tube question for my Cary amp. I decided to puchase EH 6CA7 tubes and at same time had amp caps upgraded with Cardas caps by Cary Audio. I was able hook the amp up yesterday for the first time. The rest of system is Logitech Duet, Musical Fidelity Tri Vista 21 DAC, Audible Illusions Modulus 3 Preamp, and my Belle speakers. While I have only listened to the system for about 5 hours, my initial impressions are really positive. Since I had tubes and caps replaced at same time, I dont know which had largest impact on performance. I can say the changes combined have resulted in outstanding performance with the Belles. The imaging and soundstage is wonderful - and the clarity of sound is tremendous. I had been using my Adcom GFA 5802 amp with the system until the Cary amp was available. There is no doubt for me and what I like in sound quality - the Belles driven by Cary tube amp is signifantly better than Adcom solid state amp. I don't plan anymore changes in the near term and plan to enjoy what I have. Thanks to all for suggestions on tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 on the tube damper mention below....got to admit...didn't think much of them and had trouble validating in my mind why it would make a difference...BUT...after doing a Harley motor upgrade I would up with a bunch of extra o rings that looked like they would fit as tube dampers....so I put them on...and yes...to my surprise...the sound changed...seeminly more detailed...can't explain it..but it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjmustang69 Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I plan to research the tube dampers more. Based on the comments in this thread, and others I've read, there are certainly many people who are convinced they improve the sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I have had variable results with tube dampers, depending on the preamp and which tube I put them on. By all means, give'em a try, but don't expect improvement with all tubes. The EL-35 is an all-time favorite of mine for its linearity, clarity, and lack of bass bump-up. I suppose that's why Marantz used a quad of them in its 70-watt Model 9 mono amp instead of some other tube that could produce 70 watts from a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassmanBruce Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Congratulations on buying a pair of klipsch Belles!!!! Two weeks ago i bought a pair of 1980 La Scalas. I had to replace two diaphragms in one of them, and did a cap replacement on the two AA crossovers. I have a fairly big collection of tube amplifiers, and tubes. My favorite power amp,from my collection, is my Marantz 8B. I have seven different brands of EL34 tubes, and the one that is the winner for home audio, by far, is the Mullard EL-34 XF2 single or double halo version, made in England from the mid to late 60's. The midrange that comes from these tubes is just so much better than the present Russian and Chinese version of the EL34. The EL34 that comes in second place, by my ear, is the SED Winged C EL34. It seems to have a better, more extended top and bottom compared to the English Mullard EL34's, but, that all important midrange, especially heard with my new Klipsch La Scalas, is much more natural sounding with the 60's Mullards. I have a friend who has the Cary/AES Super amp 25, and he likes the JJ KT77. To be brutely honest with you, I think your Cary V12 might be a bit big for your Belles, as they cost a bundle to re-tube, and will be used at a small fraction of the power needed. I have my 8B set in "triode mode" which makes it a 20 wpc power amp. At 104 db sensitivity with my Scalas, the 8b doesn't even break a sweat at medium listening levels. Well, enough of my ranting! I know you will love your Belles, and best to you, Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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