Need help picking out drivers for all out Corn-Scala project

[oldtimer1954]

Hey fella's, I am new to this site and the whole DIY Klipsch Heritage scene in general, so please bear with me and be nice.

I am looking to build some Corn-Scala's from the ground up, and need some suggestions on which driver combinations to use. I know that I definitely want to go with 3 ways, and I will most likely be running these active.

For the Midrange drivers and horns, I really have no idea of what would be best. I was thinking of using the B&C DE-85TN drivers with one of Dave's wooden horns, just not sure of which models to go with? Is that midrange driver pretty good? Is the wooden horn from Dave a good combination with that driver? Any other recommended driver and horn combo's that would be better?

For the Tweeters and their horns I am also kind of in the dark. I was recommended the B&C DE-10 with its stock horn that comes with it. Either that or Bob Crites CT-125 tweeters, not sure what the recommended horns for the Crites tweeters would be?? Also, I have heard the B&C DE-250 is a pretty good tweeter, what do you guys think about those? If I do end up going with any of these, which horns would you recommend that I use?

For the low end, I have been told that an Emminance 15c driver is pretty hard to beat. How do you guys feel about this driver? I might even add two, if I can find someone to help me with the motor board and cabinet dimensions. Speaking of which, does Bob Crites do custom cabinettry?

[Coytee]

Do as you may. For the sake of throwing more ingredients on your table of thought, you might look into making it a 2-way using the Klipsch K510 horn (2" driver format)

Losing a crossover point and going 2-way was one of the best things to ever improve my sound.

[kg4guy]

Hey fella's, I am new to this site and the whole DIY Klipsch Heritage scene in general, so please bear with me and be nice.

I am looking to build some Corn-Scala's from the ground up, and need some suggestions on which driver combinations to use. I know that I definitely want to go with 3 ways, and I will most likely be running these active.

For the Midrange drivers and horns, I really have no idea of what would be best. I was thinking of using the B&C DE-85TN drivers with one of Dave's wooden horns, just not sure of which models to go with? Is that midrange driver pretty good? Is the wooden horn from Dave a good combination with that driver? Any other recommended driver and horn combo's that would be better?

For the Tweeters and their horns I am also kind of in the dark. I was recommended the B&C DE-10 with its stock horn that comes with it. Either that or Bob Crites CT-125 tweeters, not sure what the recommended horns for the Crites tweeters would be?? Also, I have heard the B&C DE-250 is a pretty good tweeter, what do you guys think about those? If I do end up going with any of these, which horns would you recommend that I use?

For the low end, I have been told that an Emminance 15c driver is pretty hard to beat. How do you guys feel about this driver? I might even add two, if I can find someone to help me with the motor board and cabinet dimensions. Speaking of which, does Bob Crites do custom cabinettry?

Bob's 2-way Cornscala looks to be great I have the Faital Horns in my La scala's and am very pleased with the sound I would save yourself some time and get these.

[oldtimer1954]

Coytee, tell me a little bit about this Klipsch K-510? Is this a horn or a driver? From what I can tell from doing a quick search, this is the tweeter that was/is used in the Jub, correct? I wonder how this would sound in place of a La Scala midrange and tweeter?

[oldtimer1954]

I am pretty set on going with a 3 way over a 2 way, although I might be convinced to do so

My room isn't all that big, approx 18 x 14. It has always been my opinion that to get the best out

of a 2 way design over a 3 way design, you would need to have the speakers at least 10 feet apart and

be sitting fairly far back. Assuming I go with the 3 way, what are the better drivers to be used?

[Coytee]

tell me a little bit about this Klipsch K-510? Is this a horn or a driver? From what I can tell from doing a quick search, this is the tweeter that was/is used in the Jub, correct? I wonder how this would sound in place of a La Scala midrange and tweeter?

You're getting it. The K510 is the horn lens and it's mated to the K69 driver (which is the tweeter driver on the 3-way Jubilee)

It's a 2" format driver so it's going to have more ability and less distortion than the smaller format drivers. Might be most beneficial to go active however, there is evidently a passive designed for it. I thought I had a copy of the passive schematic but it's currently eluding me, I might be wrong.

How might it sound?

I've owned a pair of LaScalas since 1979. The "JubeScala" (LaScala in a 2-way format with the 510 or K402) jumps all over the stock LaScala.

Key point...you are losing a crossover point so the coherency of the speaker will go up.

Even as I type this, I'm talking to a guy in California, trying to obtain a couple K510's so I can stuff one of them into my LaScala (empty cabinet)

[Daddy Dee]

oldtimer,

Welcome to the forum. You've gotten some very good advice about considering a two way with the k510 (K69 driver) which sounds very good.

going two way or three way, Bob Crites can be really helpful coming up with the appropriate crossover.

[Coytee]

I am pretty set on going with a 3 way over a 2 way, although I might be convinced to do so
My room isn't all that big, approx 18 x 14. It has always been my opinion that to get the best out of a 2 way design over a 3 way design, you would need to have the speakers at least 10 feet apart and be sitting fairly far back. Assuming I go with the 3 way, what are the better drivers to be used?

Ok, I'll try to convince... []

I had a pair of Khorns in my living room. They, obviously, are 3-way. I had some of Al K's extreme slope crossovers in them (which might be a factor)

I have an open floor plan. When you walk down the steps to this main floor, you are immediatly in line with the left side only Khorn which is about 30 feet away. I found myself stopping cold in my tracks at the bottom of the steps noticing that the "one voice" (coherency) of the speaker was noticably BETTER here than when I was in the living room. I was befuddled but... it was what it was.

Fast forward and I replace the Khorns with the Jubilee's. Same room, same electronics....

Soon I have a thought go through my head... "if the Khorns sounded "X" better when standing over there, 30 feet away, I wonder what the Jubilee's will do??"

So, I went to that spot at the bottom of the steps.

I was befuddled.... the Jubilee's did not sound any better.

Repeat, they did not sound any better. To be clear, they sounded better than the Khorns but the point is "Khorns + 30 feet sounded better in my house than Khorns in room. The Jubilee's +30 feet sounded the same as Jubilee's in room but still sounded better than the Khorns + 30 feet"

Hmm...why is this so.... I finally deduced that it was because I was using an active crossover and it was the aligned signal that might have done it. Finally, Ben (tyvm) smacked me over the head and said it was not because of the signal alignment but more so, because I dropped a crossover point and had fewer drivers trying to mix into a single sound bubble. He then challanged me to do to my active, screw around with the delay and see if I could mess it up.

Long story, I couldn't, the coherency stayed the same (other than hearing a drum thwack and a moment later, thwack again with the delay)

So to put it from the other perspective...

I was going to this 30' spot to see how much better the Jubilee's sounded 30' away when in fact, the reality is, they gelled together much closer than the Khorns, perhaps 10' away. Now I had a much more uniform sound bubble from 10 extending to this 30' spot unlike the Khorns which might have taken the full 30' to gell together.

Bottom line, I can now get BETTER sound while IN the room with the Juiblee's than I was able to get IN the room with the Khorns and the primary reason for that is dropping the crossover point and having the two halves gell together quicker.

Investigating this further might prove beneficial to your ears (if not your wallet [])

[Coytee]

You might even ask Bob Crites point blank. I know he's got a less expensive solution. During the education stage that's secondary... the main question I'd ask him if I were you is, would something like the K510/69 work and would it indeed be a better solution than some of the 3-way solutions. For me that is yes/no which can then be followed up with other solutions that might be viable and why.

My bet is he'll agree but mention that the K510/69 is not perhaps the most cost effective solution. I think he's got another solution that might be more cost effective. I don't know if it's a 2" format or not.

I pesonally like the idea of staying with the brand so I know the solution has been engineered by Klipsch for Klipsch. Staying with the k510/69 is a 100% Klipsch engineered solution, tested in their anechoic chamber.

There are other solutions floating around and little doubt to me that they LOOK fantastic and probably sound fantastic as well. They might be less expensive or substantially similar in cost (I have no idea what they might cost). I just have to think that there is not the same level of engineering going into their design as something coming out of the lab at Klipsch. (I do not mean to slight any of these talanted guys in any way by saying that)

[oldtimer1954]

Thanks for the replys guys! Like I said, I am pretty set on going with a pair of 3 ways in leu of 2 ways.

I feel that for a 2 way to sound its best, you need to have a big room and sit at least 10 feet back from the speakers

My room is small and I wont be sitting very far back nor will I be able to put them in the corners. Do you guys think this

sound logical?

[oldtimer1954]

I will definitely look into the K-510 horn with the K-69 driver. I am interested to hear what other driver/horn combo's might be better though? What do you guys think of the horns that Dave Harris is selling? What about the B & C horns and drivers, or the Fatel horns and drivers? Can anyone give me a little of you subjective opinons on these other horns and driver combo's? I appreciate the replies from Coytee and Daddy Dee, just looking for some additional information and opinions on the B & C/Fatel/Dave Harris options as well.

[Coytee]

My room is small and I wont be sitting very far back nor will I be able to put them in the corners. Do you guys think this
sound logical?

Just so I'm clear.. I disagree 100% with your logic that 3 way is better than 2 way in a smaller space. My experience has totally shown me the opposite to be true in that, the 2-way will merge into a single "bubble" of sound much quicker (therefore CLOSER) than a 3 way and therefore would "fit" inside a smaller space better.

The main reason for going to more drivers is for more output (look at the 3 way Jubilee verses 2 way Jubilee). Divide the work load so that each driver can handle more power/output for a larger space, not smaller.

The 3 way Jubilee will have more ability than the 2-way but, for residential use, the 2 way will still force you out of the room if you turn it up far enough.

Bottom line, I think the premise that 3-way is better for smaller rooms is wrong. (my .02 kind of thing)

[Johnny's Jill]

I have Daves Eliptracs with the B&C drivers in my 2-ways, and they sound terrific.

I am not sure how a small room would make a difference 2-way or 3-way, I suspect its just preference.

[Johnny's Jill]

The K-510 is a cd horn, doesn't that require hf compensation?

Are you running yours active?

Craig 73

[Johnny's Jill]

I pesonally like the idea of staying with the brand so I know the solution has been engineered by Klipsch for Klipsch. Staying with the k510/69 is a 100% Klipsch engineered solution, tested in their anechoic chamber.

I am sure the K-510 is a great horn, but has this setup been tested in chamber as a Cornscala or JubScala?

Craig 73

[ZombieWoof]

Johnny 5, what B & C 2" driver model # do you use in that speaker ?

Can you describe the sound ?

[Johnny's Jill]

I have the DE-85TN, I was very surprised how much better it sounded than my previous 3-way setup.

I had JBL 2426H with ALK Trachorns and JBl 2404 baby cheeks.

On my 3-way playing fairly loud, I ran into occasional harshness, with the 2-way is never harsh. The 3-way was a touch brighter, but the 2-way overall sounds better.

Craig 73

[Coytee]

I am sure the K-510 is a great horn, but has this setup been tested in chamber as a Cornscala

I doubt it since the Cornscala is not a Klipsch product

I am sure the K-510 is a great horn, but has this setup been tested in chamber as a JubScala?

Yes it has. In fact, the idea of this came to me as an early Jubilee owner knowing that I might want a center channel in the future. Since the premise of the Jubilee was to raise the crossover point of the Khorn to allow a 2-way, I asked Roy if the LaScala would work under it (the K402). He said he thought it would just fine and seems over the next several months, he doodled around with it in his spare time in the chamber and came up with the crossover info required. (via active)

Some folks bought the K402 for the JubeScala so he then ran it for the K510 since it seemed to be getting some traction. (still active as far as I know)

Later, Fyrpwer wanted a K510 on top of a Belle bass bin so Roy then created a passive that would work.

[Coytee]

I am sure the K-510 is a great horn, but has this setup been tested in chamber as a Cornscala

I doubt it since the Cornscala is not a Klipsch product

As a follow up thought... my understanding of the Cornscala is the bass section of the Cornwall, mated with the mid/hf section of the LaScala.

That said, it might be worth asking about. Surely anyone can appreciate that Roy isn't going to think about running a specific horn with all their designs 'just in case' someone might ask. Sometimes one can be surprised if they DO ask but it might take asking first, hence, the JubeScala.

I'd also speculate that some of the engineers on the forum could take the basic curve of the K510 (which I don't think would change much other than near the crossover point) and give a good idea of where it should be to mate up nicely with the Cornwall bass bin. I'd bet even Bob Crites himself could give a good approximation as I think he has the parts in hand. (and could also provide a passive) Again, some speculation on my part. Where's DocWho when I need him....

I have specifically talked to Bob at least once about the K510/Cornwall and he felt it would be a good match other than the price differential compared to other options.

[oldtimer1954]

Johnny5, so you are using Dave's Eliptrac horns with the B&C DE85TN drivers in a 2 way configuration? What are you using as the bottom 4 drivers that I saw in the pic that you posted? I am interested in using that same horn and driver combo as well. Might even go with a custom cabinet that houses Daves horns with the B&C DE85TN drivers and four Dayton or Em 8 inch, or even 10 inch woofers. What do you guys think about that? If I do go that way, how would I figure out what specs to build the cabinets to? I see where Bob Crites has a custom CnC machine now and is offering fully built CornScala's in three different configiurations, so with that being said, I am sure I could talk him into building the cabinets to house all of those bad boys. Oh and yes, I will most likely be going with an active crossover.