Randy Bey Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 So I fired up the B&O/Rat Shack 'Little Wonder' combo last night. Had to improvise a ground strap on my Creek passive and after some confusion on patch cables sat down to listen. What is this I'm hearing? First up was Frank 'Blue Eyes' Sinatra. I had previously scrupulously cleaned the record in the kitchen sink using a time honored procedure. swish-skritch-swish-skritch all the way through. But, despite the 1950's production values, Frankies voice brought a tear to my eye. What is this I'm hearing? There is a fluidity to the sound, when the scratches and dirt don't get in the way, that is indescribable. Am I dreaming this or what? I don't know, it surely is too soon to tell. Besides, nothing that I have in vinyl do I have in digital, so direct comparisons are both pointless and impossible. Then, throwing caution to the wind I put an uncleaned unplayed Tschaikovsky Symphony #5 on the TT, with all the poisonous molding compounds deep in it's grooves, no doubt. No surface noise. Maybe a click or pop here and there but 99.95% clear. Again that continuity, the smoothness, the fluidity. This bears further research. I have yet to plumb the depths of course but so far the rat shack little wonder has done it's job, with the part about remembering to turn it on or off still plaguing me. Keeripes. I guess there is something to this vinyl thing after all. Maybe I will invest $60 in a carbon brush and a spin-clean record cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 You're hearing analog! In spite of the limited dynamic range (severe on some of my rock LPs), surface noise and inconvenience, Vinyl does sound better. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 So what is the RS Little Wonder? Inquiring needle heads want to know. I can tell you that you never can tell for sure either by lineage or by look what is going to sound great in phono. I have 180 gram audiophile pressings that seem uncleanable even though I bought them new and hardly played them, and just on my last trip to Half-Price I bought an early 60's Audio Spectrum disk that weighs hardly an ounce (Dynawarp?) of big band music...and it is awesome. Listening to it even as I type. The proof is in the playing! The same trip, I picked up a Jan and Dean Direct Master from 1980 (Surf's Up thread has details) for which I also had little hope. Unbelieveable. Like being in the studio. Perhaps the thrill of discovery is part of the phono phun. I might also add I'm a DBX (I've a 117 and a 128) user since 1975, and play only a few discs without the benefit of this marvelous little device. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted June 8, 2002 Author Share Posted June 8, 2002 The 'Little Rat' is a phone-order part from Radio Shack, a very small, very inexpensive 9 volt battery powered op-amp phono stage. It is highly regarded in the AA vinyl crowd, at least those that agree you could get a phono stage for less than $3000. Some people buy two and 'monoblock' them. I got it just because for $19.50 I could try vinyl again which is a very modest expense all things considered. I got rid of all my vinyl years ago, in retrospect I would have kept maybe a dozen of the three hundred I sold, but the darn stuff keeps coming back to me. Just today my eldest daughter tells me of a packing material that a supplier at her store uses -- old Billie Holiday and Frank Sinatra LP covers. (!!) I asked her what happened to the vinyl and she guesses he throws it away. (!!!) Anyways the next decision is whether I buy an all-plastic spin clean system http://www.garage-a-records.com/spin.html or wait till I can afford an entry level nitty gritty. Then I guess the long wait for enough money to get a decent TT and phono stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 8, 2002 Share Posted June 8, 2002 Fascinating. Bill Barista builds his stuff and suggests that clean phono stages shouldn't cost much more than that. (Wrote the above about 4 hours ago, then went to put some albums away, and the next thing I knew I'd been through about 4 albums and 20 78's) I've an Audio Alchemy Vac in the Box I think I paid around a hundred for that probably has about the same parts in it as the RS. Sounds good. I use it exclusively for 78's these days, and send my LP's through the excellent phono stage in my Van Alstine Super PAS4i. My opinion is that you'd have to pay at least the price of the PAS4i just to get a standalone phono stage as good...and the rest of the preamp is free. I've a basic Nitty Gritty, but I use it mainly just for drying. I use the weak dish detergent solution with a baby washcloth for really dirty disks, then vacuum them with the NG. Never found a disc cleaning solution that really seemed worth the money. Ruined a number of discs with old DiscWasher fluid before learning that the stuff breaks down into something really horrible after a year or two. Rambling again... Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: 21rst Century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 "Then, throwing caution to the wind I put an uncleaned unplayed Tschaikovsky Symphony #5 on the TT, with all the poisonous molding compounds deep in it's grooves, no doubt. No surface noise. Maybe a click or pop here and there but 99.95% clear. Again that continuity, the smoothness, the fluidity. This bears further research." You might have something here! A poisionous mold we could grow on the grooves of our scratchy old vinyl to smooth out the sound. I have often dreamed of such an elixir that I could swab onto the LPs that would "grow back" and heal the damaged vinyl. I have heard there were special stylii which could reach into the undamaged part of the grooves and get better sound, but do not know anything more about this. Anyone heard of this? -Klipsched and Shured ------------------ Cornwalls currently upgrading to all tube components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 9, 2002 Share Posted June 9, 2002 I've opened a dialogue with the marketing manager of the Laser turntable ELP. I do not know whether it will go anywhere, but from living for years in the orient I can bet it will take at least a year to know. The potential of a laser turntable is tremendous from a marketing standpoint. With sufficient volume I see no reason for them not to be profitable at a 1000.00, and while the LP is never going to represent a significant market share compared to digital, I don't think even 30,000 or so potential buyers is something to sneeze at. However, I've no idea what they SOUND like. If the sound sux, nobody is going to care that you are not damaging your records. Anyway, the potential for getting all the music that is on an LP off it lies with this technology. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Randy, I suggest you don't play ANY more LPs...if you do you might realize what many havem that records sound better than CDs!...sucks doesn't it? is it measurable? I doubt it, but just like we react favorably to tiny watt SET rigs, we seem to react favorably to LPs...surface noise, etc. but they sound great! alive!...the frustrating thing is I have alomost a thousand CDs collected...grrrr...now back to finding out how to make my rig (complete with CD changers) sound better....warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 Hey Tony, long time no see! I need another rat hole to throw my money down like I need another hole in my head. But golly there is music in that vinyl, and the quality, once you get past the vinyl defects, is quite good. Dave, I have heard about the laser TT and from what I understand it is mainly for libraries, etc. for archival purposes in that it does not cause FURTHER wear on a record. It has big time issues with non-black vinyl, and is still victim to dirt, scratches, etc. It's main claim to fame is the no further damage part. But, as I am wrong at least a half-dozen times a day, I could well be wrong on this too. Keep us posted on your investigations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 for the rat hole shopping list: record clamp good record cleaning machine SAE 5000a click and pop machine better cartridge better tone arm cable better phono preamp aaasrrgghhhhhh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Randy: In my 1500 or so LP's, I don't recall a single one that isn't black. I know quite a few of other colors were issued, but they are few and far between. Actually, seems I recall an article years ago suggesting that the lack of pure carbon in colored LPs produced wear problems due to poor lubrication. In any case, colored LPs are for collectors of same. If you read my post closely, I did emphasize that EVERYTHING about this device hinges on the sound. If it don't sound worth a damn, then I can save my LP's just as well by not playing them at all. Though outside my range, 6k is just about into the golden ear/golden pocketbook range for a rig. I believe that the price would come down substantially if the thing performs and sells. ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Dave, there are MANY MANY releases of indie LPs on colored vinyl of all sorts. Indeed, Ryko did a number of clear vinyl records. I probably have close to 50 or more non black vinyl of various states. Here are a few above that I just photographed. The middle selection is hard to see but it is infused with swirls. There is much debate about the sound of these different grades of vinyl. Of course, many say that only virgin vinyl sounds good. I have to admit, I mostly agree. But that Ryko clear vinyl sounds damn good and the West German pressed white vinyl sounds good too. It all depends. The indie music scene in the 80s was almost completely dedicated to vinyl as was the German pressings of these minimally recorded bands. Some of my best newer vinyl comes from this era. kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Seems I recall you saying you had around 5,000 discs? So 50 represents one in a thousand. Granted, I would not fly in an aircraft that crashed one in a thousand times, but I would forgive a turntable that won't play one in a thousand discs. I've a number of Edison and Columbia cylinders that don't play very well on my turntable. :-) Hmmm... Wonder if I could scan them on my flatbed, then write software to decode? Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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