A spin on the LaScala bin design

[2sick2pray]

Thanks Moray: I do not have the equipmemt yet available to me, however to make a k

K402 does not seem to far off the mark to me. I need a CAD program and I"ll march that down to a cabinent maker in a heart beat. You just have to layer the progressions, in thin layers of birch(1/4" ply), to make up the bi- radial design of the horn. Am I off the mark?2S2P

[moray james]

I think a K402 would be difficult to replicate and the only way I can think of to do that accurately would be to make a mold from one. The K402 is a CD horn (constant directivity) not biradial. I am not sure what style a K402 is called, perhaps DJK will know

I do think that you could kock up something cheap and dirty which would give you a good idea of what the real thing would be like using sheet goods. I am sure that if you were to take a very close look at a K402 you would see that there are surface details which are there to deal with polar pattern control which don't show up in most pictures of the horn. Like I said berore there is often mpre than meets the eye in these designs which wre done by some very clever designers. Best regards Moray James.

[Guest " "]

3 sided dog house...woofer fits with no dog house manipulations. Pro's - max exit area size. Con's - cab is very large

[Guest " "]

5 sided dog house....needed where the sides of the dog house will hit the woofers if a triangle is made. Pro's - smaller width cab can be used than a 3 sided dog house. Con's - exit flare very fast. mid frequency cost penalty after the first turn.

[Guest " "]

4 sided dog house....needed if the cabinet depth is too short for a 5 sided dog house becuase the resulting exit flare would be too fast . Pro's - cab does not need to be as deep as a 3 sided or 5 sided dog house. Con's - less exit area resulting in lost low frequency response.

[Guest " "]

Could you include a couple of sketches to aid the mentally spatial/visually impared?

see below

[moray james]

Ok thanks am with you that's what I figutrd but I was not 100% sure that was what you ment.

Quote: Using a 5 sided dog house would result in a larger exit path and a lower
reaching spec. The clare W folks couldn't achieve a 3 sided doghouse
becuase of the small cab size..the doghouse sides will hi the woofer
long before the doghouse sides meet at the exit point.

So the pptions are wider and or wider. A three sided house would get you wider and longer but starts to screw up the expansion as it opens too quickly so you end up having to go with multiple angles on the sides of the dog house to maintain a correct expansion rate which was the benefit in th elarger Ciare design Vs the single panel sided dog hous of the smaller design. Have you seen any novel versions of this idea which work to provide a good pathe length and correct expansion? It would seem the W bid tops out around 7 - 8 feet in length if that. Comments? Best regards Moray James.

[Guest " "]

two woofers

[Guest " "]

sort of like an MWM bin folded in half

[moray james]

I guess that I should have mentioned that I wanted to keep to the La Scala / FH-1 style configuration of only one 90 degree bend. Multiple bends are ok for low bass but at 80 Hz a straight horn will sound better than one with a single 90 degree bend. Tough if not impossible toget 40 Hz out of a design like that. I think that you are going to runn out of path length around the 6 ft mark or so. At least I have not seen and longer. Best regards Moray James.

[djk]

"sort of like an MWM bin folded in half"

EV TL5050.

http://hornplans.free.fr/tl5050.html

"only one 90 degree bend."

The LaScala has two 90° bends, one at the throat, another at the corners.

[Guest " "]

I guess that I should have mentioned that I wanted to keep to the La Scala / FH-1 style configuration of only one 90 degree bend. Multiple bends are ok for low bass but at 80 Hz a straight horn will sound better than one with a single 90 degree bend. Tough if not impossible toget 40 Hz out of a design like that. I think that you are going to runn out of path length around the 6 ft mark or so. At least I have not seen and longer. Best regards Moray James.

I don't think the FH-1 folks got the slot right. the FH-1 only does 58hz (+-3db) to 500hz and is -10 db at 45hz. for the size it's does n't do any better than a lascala bass bin. The LaScala does just as good at 24"X24"X24" vs the 30"X24"X24". And sure...a straight horn is always better.....if you have the room for it.

[moray james]

OK two bends but I think that might be debatable but the point is to have as few bends as possible with the least degrees. I don't have the room for a straight horn but I don't want to screw up the sound either. I want the efficiency of a horn for as low as is practical then will go to in all likelyhood a PPSL sub or a tapped horn. Horn response can be used to optomize these designs. Best regards Moray James.

[moray james]

2sick 2pray you have a PM, best regards Moray James.

[moray james]

The Belle and the SP1 are pretty close in size with the FH-1 being a little larger again. The La Scala is the most compact of the lot but they are all reasonably close. I have heard Belle's and La Scala and liked trha Belle a little more than the La Scala. I think that Claude has had La Scala and FH-1 and stayed with the FH-1 so there is some room for personal taste. All of these designs do a great job of not messing with the sound using minimal bends. All of these speakers are well down in response by 60 Hz compared to their 100 Hz levels and are best crossed to a sub between 80 - 100 Hz. The smaller of the two Ciare designs has the four sided dog house and that distinct Belle look and is only 3.5 inches wider than a La Scala, something about the Belle that works for me might just be because it was my first ever experience with Klipsch as a kid.

I think you are right about the Peavey and I think PWK spent a lot of years tweaking the La Scala and would have milked more bass if he could have, so one likely has to go larger to go any deeper. Best regards Moray James.

[2sick2pray]

Thanks Moray: I do not have the equipmemt yet available to me, however to make a k

K402 does not seem to far off the mark to me. I need a CAD program and I"ll march that down to a cabinent maker in a heart beat. You just have to layer the progressions, in thin layers of birch(1/4" ply), to make up the bi- radial design of the horn. Am I off the mark?2S2P

I will retrack the Bi-radial comment ,as my clumsy fat fingers and brian did not connect. To many turns to get to Albuquerque:). 2S2P

[2sick2pray]

5 sided dog house....needed where the sides of the dog house will hit the woofers if a triangle is made. Pro's - smaller width cab can be used than a 3 sided dog house. Con's - exit flare very fast. mid frequency cost penalty after the first turn.

I am proposing to come out of the rear corners @ 90^ up to the point where the roof panels start to flare inwards. I 'd like to flare the outside panels at the same flare angle, to the original 24" depth of the original LS ,and 555 design. If I understand you correctly, the downside would be very fast exit flare and compromising the mid frequencies? 2S2P

[Guest " "]

do you mean this...

[Guest " "]

or do you mean this? I think this one would work better than the previous one.

[moray james]

I think you are right (with the last sketch) and if the side walls were angled back in at the point where the parallel sections of the dog house walls stop then you would be doing a better job of maintaining the flair rate keeping it closer to the original. Or the parallel sections of the dog house could be extended farther forward to achieve similar results. This is where a full scale drawing of your flare rate comes in handy. Sorry I have no idea how to make or add a sketch I hope that you get the idea. Best regards Moray James.