WMcD Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 I think we're all on the same wavelength. Perhaps my comment should have been that a full knowledge of what your AV receiver can do, does by default, or seems to do despite what you're trying to achieve, is worthwhile. Otherwise you wind up with bass mismanagement. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ufanco Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 Wow and I thought I was confused enough already with what I needed to update system. Then you all add another piece of equiment I wasn't aware of into the picture. Well all I can say is its better to have more knowlege before spending money than after . Of course now having brain overload alot has changed since I bought/researched my system in 1994. I just wanted to jump into this post and thank you all for this great info keep it up guys. PS: How far are you from Maryland Jhawk I heard some loud bass rumbling tonight from the north thought it might be you and them new speakers J/K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted June 13, 2002 Author Share Posted June 13, 2002 Boa- Yeah, that's what I like about the newer receivers, in my case a Denon 4802/5803; the flexible x-overs. My 4800 doesn't have that, and it would be a nice tweak. However, I would also like PLII, so at some point, there will be enough new stuff to "justify" a new receiver. Maybe bass management will be one of them! Mike- Thanks for the additional thoughts. I'll be printing a copy of this thread to keep in my audio file to review when the time comes to upgrade electronics. I don't know if I want to go the separates route, with a receiver and many channels of amplification. I have the extra amp now since my 4800 only has 5-ch and I needed two more for surround back, though actually, the 5200 powers the mains and the 4800 powers the surrounds/center. Ufanco- From MD, probably a good 4-5hrs by car, so if that bass you heard was me, you have incredible hearing! Besides, I only hooked them up to verify UPS didn't damage them in shipping. I'll do more work on them after this weekend, but have a family funeral that takes priority over HT fun. Once I get things dialed in, I'll post some thoughts. It might actually give me a reason to post my center channel comparison too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 w/ most if you set any channel/channel pair to large it will not engage the high pass filter for that specific one. so that one runs full range. if you set small it engages the high pass filter directs the low bass for that to the sub woofer. if you mix, say set fronts large & rears small, then in most cases it will send the low bass from those set small only to the sub. however some may send it to both the fronts set large & sub (not very common i think). many like the denon will have an additional bass mgmt contol w/ a setting like "fronts+lfe" or "lfe only". this allows for the low bass from fronts set large to also go to the sub. or for "lfe only" for the low bass from the fronts set large to not go to the sub also. iow, it's called "lfe only" because the sub only gets that & not the low bass from front speakers set large. however, "lfe only" can be a misnomer cause the sub could still also be getting low bass from channels other than the fronts that are set to small. as long as sub:yes is selected, the low pass filter to the sub will always be engaged for either the fixed or adjustable crossover point, no matter what other speakers are set to, large or small. f.e., a fixed 80hz crossover will start cutting the sub at 80hz. the above does not apply for LFE. LFE is the seperate (.1) channel for given material w/ a .1 channel in it. for most processors/dsp, their high pass filter or low pass filter (aka crossover) does not affect LFE. the full range of LFE will always go to the sub only just as long as sub:yes is selected. some yammys or those w/ an LFE control could alter this fact though. iow, think of it as the LFE channel/sub is fixed at a large/full-range setting. makes sense as the sub is usually the largest speaker in the sys. & LFE is speced by the mixers to usually never exceed 120hz. so no worry there programming it nonfiltered in the dsp. the moral of this story is experiment w/ all the various settings w/ a lot of both 2-channel & 5.1 material w/ heavy bass, & settle on where is best. w/ some like denon you may even have dif settings for dif modes. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Hi Jay Hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommerl Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 J Hawk Sorry for the bad post just now Meant to advise to put SVS sub's on your list----great value--- IMO Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 In the most basic of HT receivers/pre-pros and with some DVD/DVD-A/SACD players Bass Management is inevitable. Realize there is a difference in how the manufacturer employs the logic and what flexibility the end user is afforded. Granted I haven't seen or read all that is out there. But most should contain basic Bass Management Settings, if nothing but Small vs. Large for speakers. My first Pro Logic receiver had no sub out, but settings for speaker sizes were required or one lived with the default speaker setting. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew2 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Can the LFE be sent to the mains? (Not powerd towers) But passive like the RF3's. ------------------ Matthew Klipsch Rocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 With speakers set to large and no sub, depending on how the processing logic works, it will allocate % LFE to fronts. Possibly to others as well. Depends on the receiver/Pre-Pros logic for handling Bass Mgt & LFE. You units manual may include more in-depth info. If you speaks can't handle those low effects, you may not be pleased with the sound. My personal choice is to have a sub that can adequately handle the LFE and Low Bass Signals, then set all to small. Having a flexable crossover point allows you to direct those signals below that setting to the sub, and the speakers to benefit from not having to carry that excessive load. ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> This message has been edited by ShapeShifter on 06-17-2002 at 07:22 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 about every a/v unit i've seen sends LFE only to the sub preout/sub when you switch to sub:yes. & if you don't have a sub & of course switch to sub:no it sends the LFE channel to the fronts of course switched to large. only exception i've come across is some of the yammys that have a seperate LFE control. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 & note above i said lfe only. not only LFE. there is a dif when low bass is taken into account. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardinal Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Yes, LFE can be sent to the mains, but most (especially passive mains) will have a very difficult time handling it. I can almost guarantee that you won't be very happy sending LFE to RF3 mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 oh yea like card says, imho the seperate LFE channel is best sent to capable seperate sub(s) only & w/ a line connection for the optimum dynamics & less distortion. 5.1 mixes are speced for & done w/ a sub in mind. so unless there is no sub, i'd always be inclined to send LFE to a capable sub only anyway. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhawk92 Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 So let me resurrect this topic. It sounds like the ICBM is a great little unit, so does it really make sense to wait and pay $$$$ for a flagship receiver once it has bass management? I don't know that I'd want to buy more amps as Mike L mentioned, but then I have some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Rob, As I mentioned earlier, having 3 more channels of amplification to go with your POA 5200 would be the ideal way to go with the ICBM. This way you would have bass mgmt for all your sources. However, if you are going to buy a DVD-A or SACD player that does not have any bass mgmt (my current situation), it works just as well. I've had my Panasonic RP-91 for about 9 months now and I'm sure they have come a long way since then. I wanted DVD-A as well as Progressive Scan for my HDTV and got a good deal on mine ($480 delivered thru ecost). I am very happy with my decision and love what the ICBM does for me. I think it's a no-brainer if you have a player with no bass mgmt... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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