gsoneill@citlink.net Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 can someone please help me identify the year of my recently aquired oiled walnut cornwall speakers that have serial numbers 13R991 and 13R992? any information for that matter would be appreciated. thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 The "R" in the serial numbers denotes year of manufacture of those Cornwalls as 1977. Should have been a good year for em. The correct Logo for them should be the old black and gold "PWK" pie-slice logo, unless they were built in the last month or so of that year, when the changeover in Logo to the copper-plated rectangle occurred. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-10-2002 at 11:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsoneill@citlink.net Posted June 10, 2002 Author Share Posted June 10, 2002 thanks for the info. i just found some achvived posts that answered my question but i appreciate your reply. it looks as if my speakers were made in the last part of the year as they have the rectangular copper klipsch badge. thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 I think the rectangle logo appeared before 1977. My 1976 La Scala's have the rectangular "Klipsch" logo. Might be different on Cornwalls thou. ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 10, 2002 Share Posted June 10, 2002 Logo change occurred in last few months of 1977. I remember it well...because some of us planned to buy speakers in January of 78 (when I bought my Heresys)and we hoarded back some of the pie-slice logos for our speakers after the changeover occurred a few months before. Some customers replaced earlier logos with later ones after the change...pie-slice style logos were prone to breakage and to falling off alot more than the later ones...so you often find later logos on earlier speakers as replacements. Some of the dealers ran out of the pie-slice logos before the speakers they had in stock were sold, too...and only had the later logos to put on them when they were unboxed...also leading to earlier-built LaScalas never having the pie-slice logos. Some folks liked later logos better than pie-slice, too...because later ones could be centered on speaker instead of up in corner...so they changed them out to later ones. Before change-over from pie-slice logos, alot of lascalas were shipped without logos mounted. Buyer was to mount them once the speakers were purchased. Pie-slice logos were just mounted with double sided-tape...but in order to keep them from falling off, it was best to glue them on, instead. I don't know how your 76 LaScalas got later logos, but the correct logo for 76 was the pie-slice PWK one. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esker Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 My sister bought her Heresies new from Bill Bell in July, 1977. I remember the day well - I was visiting the plant in Hope. Hers came with the rectangular plate - just the name Klipsch with underlying horizontal stripes. My T code KDBR's (also purchased new from Bill Bell, in February 1979) and U code HDBR's (purchased used in 1983) have the rectangular plate with both the pie wedge and the name stamped on it and no stripes. The stripes logo appears on LSI literature dated 7-77 and on the price sheet marked "Prices Effective 15 Jan. 1977." How's that for confusing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Yep, Summer of 77 is when changeover occurred to rectangular copper plate with just KLIPSCH superimposed over stripes...copper and black...next came logo with small PWK in rectangle to one side, followed by KLIPSCH to right of it. Summer production was normally scheduled for fall RETAIL sales by dealers. We had a temporary partial voluntary lay-off that summer in late May...was supposed to last through July, but ended in less than three weeks...and for the first time, we shipped over a million dollars worth of speakers in November of that year. A power struggle was in progress between PWK and the president of the company at that time. This led to the new logo, because PWK personally had the copyright to the old one. As a matter of fact, even the sign on the south end of the plant was removed that summer, and a new one was put up that had the same lettering style for "Klipsch" as found on the new logos. There were numerous versions of the rectangular logos over the next few years, but about half the production of the speakers in 1977 still left the plant with the pie-slice logo on them. The first speaker models to use the rectangular logo were the LaScalas and the speakers with grille cloth on them. The decorator Heresys and Decorator Cornwalls retained the pie-slice logos until the change-over in cabinet design for the Heresy later that year(Cornwall flush-front decorator models continued in production into early 1978)...when the flush-front heresy decorator models all changed to dropped-in front models with grille-cloth panels. By that time, there were only a few of the pie-slice logos left...and they were hoarded back by employees who favored them for their own speakers. All through the summer of 1977, employees snuck over to final assembly areas during breaks and picked up a handful of those old pie-slice logos wherever they could find them to use on the speakers they intended to buy in the future...NONE of the production workers liked the new-style logos!!! LOL! Although it is not strange at all to see a Klipsch "heritage" series speaker built BEFORE 1977 with the later rectangular logo on it, due to replacement pie-slice logos being unavailable...one MAY ON OCCASSION find a speaker built AFTER 1977 with the pie-slice logo on it...and that speaker was more than likely one built for an employee who had saved back some of the older logos for his/her future use on personal purchases...that speaker will also likely have something else special about it, too...see the enclosed pic of one of MY 1978 Heresys...not only do they have the pie-slice logo, but they are also built with parts saved back from before the changeover to the "drop-in front" style of decorator birch models that occurred a few months BEFORE I built these!!! I also built-up about 7 more pairs of the flush-front style Heresys throughout 1978 and even into early 1979 for employees who had asked me to save back some nice wood for them in 1977...LOL!...and these ended up with pie-slice logos on them too!! In those days, most of the production from the summer months generally never made it into a customer's hands until sometime in the mid to late fall...and fall production from September through November was generally retailed by dealers in December, just before Christmas...with most of December and January production slated for replenishment of dealer post-Christmas inventories. BUT, a customer who bought speakers at the plant generally got them right out of final assembly...whatever was being boxed that day!! Another interesting note here...those Heresys and Cornwalls produced that year with the rectangular logo on them may have the logo either above the tweeter OR between the tweeter and the midrange horn...it was mounted both ways...and there was some confusion as to how it was to be mounted..so a note was distributed through the plant that detailed EXACTLY where the logo should go. This occurred AFTER a previous note had been sent to final assembly saying "do not mount the new logos that way", and Gwin Cox responded by sending a Heresy grille cloth panel, with about twenty of the new logos mounted all over it, back to the office complex with that first note saying "do not attach the new logos that way" and a note from her attached to it that said "do not attach the logos WHICH way?"...LOL! She caught hell over that but the all the production employees thought it was funny as hell!! Also, the very first supply of those rectangular logos the company received that year did NOT stick to the grille cloth worth a damn...and tended to fall off of the speakers while enroute to dealers...so some of them ended up being glued to the speakers, while some of them are just secured by the self-stick stuff on the backs of them!! PWK eventually won that power struggle, and regained control of the company for a time...a new president came on board...but the rectangular logos remained, and PWK's "PERSONAL LOGO" never was officially used by the company again on speakers, except for on some of the "50th anniversary edition" models just a few years ago...but, even then it was not the same exact logo as before...the new one was metal. BTW....I still think the old pie-slice logo is the best one the company ever had!! And I probably built your decorator Heresys...look on back...top left rear edge of side...you should see an "A" stamped into it there...that's me. If there ain't an "A" there it is one of a very few NOT built by me in 1980!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-11-2002 at 04:24 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esker Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Thanks, HDBR - Now it's all clear -- ? Yeah, the new logo was already on the building in July, '77. It looked brand new. It was still there last month, though not looking so new anymore. I liked the pie-slice logo, too, but what can you do? I didn't know to ask for a pair of pie-slice insignias - didn't find out about the change till I got back home, but Gary Gillum gave a nice "Stolen from Paul Klipsch" mug and I picked up a Klipschirt. One of the employees (an old-timer) was wearing a PWK belt buckle that looked great (something tells me it was silver, but I'm not sure). After I got back home, I ordered a buckle through Bill Bell. It had the new logo and the goofy expression, "Strap it on with Klipsch." After a year or so I got tired of trying to explain it (I couldn't!) so it's been in a drawer somewhere ever since. Can you tell us about the PWK neckties? My HDBR's are a pair with consecutive serial numbers, but only one of them has the "A" on it. Thanks for the tunes! Seems funny that as the builder, you only got a code stamp, but Deronda Beavers and Terry Willis got their signatures on the back just for looking at them. Is there an explanation for that policy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregorius Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 HDBR, My 1976 LaScala's (6P703 & 6P704) have the copper-colored rectangular Logos just like mpgwagon's. Greg ------------------ HK AVR20 II Toshiba DVD 32" Toshiba TV Odyssey Stratos 1976 LaScala's Front L&R KV-1 Center KG 1.5 Rear L&R KSW-12 Sub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Like I said...the pie slice logo is correct for 1976...most Lascalas were shipped with the logos not mounted on them...but in a bag in the box or taped to paperwork in the box...because most lascalas at that time were shipped RAW...no finish on them...and the logos didn't stick to the raw wood very well. Even most of the black ones were shipped like that. Those logos tended to fall off really easily if they weren't GLUED on...and they only came with a SMALL peel-and-stick pad on the back of em then...so...alot of folks went to dealers to get new logos and were given the later ones...pretty simple! Just because a speaker was MADE in 1976 doesn't mean it was BOUGHT by consumer then...normal time lag back then from manufacture date(when boxed) to sale to consumer by dealer was about 2-3 months MINIMUM for Lascalas, Heresys, and Cornwalls...less for Belles and K-horns. Dealers normally attached the logos when they opened box before turning speakeres over to customer...and after the pie-slice logo was superceded by the rectangular one...alot of the pie-slice logos were not put on by dealers, who had already been shipped small quantities of the follow-up logo...for the speakers they still had in stock that originally came with the pie-slice logo...all part of the power struggle repercussions I already mentioned!! Portis Gilley, Mr. Bradford, PWK, Bob Moers, Tommy Crouch and the other honchos over at the office complex and lab...and some of the dealer reps got some of those "strap it on with Klipsch" belt buckles in silver instead of bronze...the rectangular bronze ones were issued out to employees upon hiring them, along with a mug and a Klipschirt. A limited edition serial-numbered run of oval "PWK pie-slice logo" belt buckles was also made available to employees for PURCHASE sometime in that time period...and...the honchos got them in silver too...but regular production employees got to buy them in antiqued bronze only! I still have both belt buckles, a klipschirt, the coffee mug, the little keychain "knife", the megamonth stein, the "merry klipschmas 1977" t-shirt, and various other t-shirts from that era...but I never sprang 60 bucks for one of those black satin jackets, like some folks did...way too expensive for me!! I only took home about 70-80 bucks after taxes in 1977 for a 40 hour week!! I started in July 1976 at $2.25 an hour and was only making $5.45 an hour when I left in 1983 after being there 7 years, too!!! Just figure this: I was building 240-400 birch Heresy cabinets a day...at a cost in wages of less than ten cents apiece for labor of building each birch Heresy when I started...and a whole increase in that cabinet assembly labor cost to under 20 cents apiece by the time I left 7 years later!! And raw birch Heresys listed for around 600 bucks a pair when I left in 1983!! Things are alot different now...new Heresys list for over a grand a pair now, too!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpgwagon Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 The rectangular logo's were on mine when they were sold new in 1976. I have seen several 76' Heresy's and Scala's with the same. 1975's and older all seem have the pie slice. I have never seen any 76's with a pie slice logo. Time for a poll! ------------------ http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/MYSTUFF.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 MPG, You may need a poll...but I was there, and I remember what I remember quite well...LOL! Hell, I didn't even start working there until July of 76...and the pie slice logo was going strong then!! 1977 was when the full changeover from the pie slice logo occurred...we came back from the lay-off in early June that year and within a week a new sign was up on the building and the rectangular logos started to appear. They may have used them prior to my arriving at the plant in 76 for a time, but I didn't see any on LaScalas awaiting boxing in final assembly from July of 1976 until summer of 1977...just the pie slice logos!! I can't tell you what they used before July of 76 on LaScalas, but I never saw any with anything but pie-slice logos on them...until summer of 77. When I find I am in error, I readily admit it...but what I saw...is what I saw...and I was there almost every damned workday!! There was also some kind of problem that came up over serial numbers in 1977...I don't know exactly what the deal was or which models it applied to, but I can remember that there was some issue over serial numbering that was resolved that year...it may have had to do with outrunning the numbering system as it was previously used...we built alot more speakers that year than any year before...and a few years after!! There was also some issue on whether to call birch plywood Heresy and Cornwall decorator models the "CDBR and HDBR"...or to call them "CBR and HBR" during 1977...I remember that, too!! 1977 was a weird year to work there...lots of strange things occurred...some of which had to do with the power struggle in the heirarchy of the company...some with the recent expansion of the plant the previous year(late summer 1976)and newer employees to the company who still didn't know the ropes. 1977 was the year the large turnover rate in employees began, too...and the company started to lose some long-time old hands in the process!! There were also some serious quality control ISSUES brought up after the million dollar month in November of 1977...but I don't remember any of these issues having to deal with any build quality...more issues in final assembly and shipping...and a very few speakers being boxed too soon after being painted...with the paint not yet fully cured and the visqueen they were wrapped in stuck to them or something!! Not a REGULAR occurrance, but an issue that WAS brought up!! There were also some teething problems on packaging materials in 1977...especially for Heresy and Cornwall models...because outside cabinet dimensions on the old flush-front decorator models were different from the mitered fine veneer models...it had something to do with getting one box and styrofoam base and top to fit both styles of Cornwalls...and the same for both styles of Heresys...the boxes were a new type too...with the "klipsch and the stripes" on the boxes. Normal teething pains for a company in the process of changing cabinet styles, shipping materials, and logos all at the same time!!...and still producing record volumes of a product!! It seems that in the fall of 1977, we were building product faster than we could get the supplies needed for them to be ready to ship!! 1977 was a year of logistical nightmares...especially in the final assembly and shipping departments!! If I remember correctly...there was also a "MSRP" increase TWO TIMES between late 1976 and mid 1977...less than a year apart anyway!! The production employees thought it pretty strange that two price increases occurred so close together...but the economy then was also pretty weird in general!! Interest rates were escalating upwards pretty fast then...inflation was running rampant, too!! Like I said...it was a weird time to work there!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-11-2002 at 03:58 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esker Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Seems like you were gearing up on pro stuff in a big way then, too. I remember while I was in the building Gary Gillum needed to deal with an MF woofer where the two drivers wouldn't fit in the compression chamber side by side. Must have been a nightmare when that happened. The Russians weren't giving away birch plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 11, 2002 Share Posted June 11, 2002 Actually....to be honest...Klipsch got great deals on the baltic birch that was being used...in those first couple of years I was there. But it was awhile before we figured out best how to utilize it...eventually using it for speaker fronts and backs, primarily...and in K-horn bass bin construction. The industrial LaScalas were starting to move well, and the standard and slant monitor versions of the "stage monitor Heresy" were moving....the MCM1900 system was new and still in its development stage...but already being marketed. The LB-76 was in its latter testing stages, and never really entered the line-up, though. Yep...1977 was a hectic year!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsoneill@citlink.net Posted June 11, 2002 Author Share Posted June 11, 2002 wow. i know i at the very least got a piece of history with my 1977 cornwalls! thanks for the history you guys...i'll just hope my new speakers weren't made by some disgruntled employee, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 My '76 Heresy's have the copper rectangular KLIPSCH logo as well. Just out of curiosity HDBR, if I'm doing my math correctly, you would have churned out almost one Heresy cabinet per minute if you were to do almost 400 of them in an 8 hour day... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 240 per day was an 8 hour solo AVERAGE day for me...400 was two-man operation on decorator Heresys...8-10 hour day!! Helper did rear glue blocks and caulked them up!...when I even HAD a helper...which wasn't very often!! I have done 400 on solo 10-hour days, too!! Yep...took about a minute to a minute and a half to build a flush front decorator heresy, start to finish...pretty simple build!! I had it very finely tuned though...almost like dribbling a basketball...LOL! When I first started building them...my foreman told me a good builder outta be able to average around 125 a day...but I soon found out how to increase the efficiency of it...things were originally arranged screwy...I rearranged the table set-up and was able to fly!!! Hell, the quota was 200 a day!!...when they established quotas...and nobody but me could even do that many a day!! I kinda wonder about the poor sucker who took over after I left...LOL! I never told the foreman the truth about how many I did each day...when he asked...I just said "200"...I figured if I told him I had built more than that, he would raise the quota!! Lynn tended to be a real jerk at times, too!! He was more into numbers than quality...one of the reasons he ain't there anymore!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsherry58 Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 This is quite an old thread, but here goes.... Very interesting stuff! I'm a newbie and just started re-gathering equipment. I got pretty lucky and within a year, I have a set-up I'm very happy with. Marantz 2245 (45 watts) (soon to be replaced by a 2325 (125 watts), being reworked), an AR-XL turntable, and last night I just set up a pair of '77 Cornwalls and LOVE them. They sound amazing. Wish I had kept the stuff I had when I was in the Air Force in '77, I would have saved a bunch of money, but probably would have replaced it all anyway... never had Klipsches, couldn't afford them. I have the Decorator Series Cornwalls and I think I'll leave them as they are for sound until I've listened to them a while. I would like to re-finish them, but not sure what to do. I cound lightly sand them to bare wood then lightly oil them ( I think?) if not veneer? Or I could veneer them with walnut, which I have been successful at before. Are these capable of a light sanding? I really need to get rid of the 'orangish' color someone stained them, it's ugly. Speaker grills will not come off, thinking someone must have added the 1/4" quarter-round? or is that normal? Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 5 hours ago, Jsherry58 said: This is quite an old thread, but here goes.... Very interesting stuff! I'm a newbie and just started re-gathering equipment. I got pretty lucky and within a year, I have a set-up I'm very happy with. Marantz 2245 (45 watts) (soon to be replaced by a 2325 (125 watts), being reworked), an AR-XL turntable, and last night I just set up a pair of '77 Cornwalls and LOVE them. They sound amazing. Wish I had kept the stuff I had when I was in the Air Force in '77, I would have saved a bunch of money, but probably would have replaced it all anyway... never had Klipsches, couldn't afford them. I have the Decorator Series Cornwalls and I think I'll leave them as they are for sound until I've listened to them a while. I would like to re-finish them, but not sure what to do. I cound lightly sand them to bare wood then lightly oil them ( I think?) if not veneer? Or I could veneer them with walnut, which I have been successful at before. Are these capable of a light sanding? I really need to get rid of the 'orangish' color someone stained them, it's ugly. Speaker grills will not come off, thinking someone must have added the 1/4" quarter-round? or is that normal? Thanks, John Welcome! The edge is not factory. And in the future, it’s always best to start a new thread instead of replying to one that’s almost old enough to legally drink. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Camacho Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Hello I was fortunate to pick up my corn Wells. I was walking down the K St. mall, and the crest theater was auctioning off three sets of their original theater speakers. My serial number is. type C – WO – 15 serial number 2K613. The other serial number is 2K614. They should be registered to the crest theater. I would say in the 60s. Looking forward to your response thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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