Two Channel Experts

[hornlover60]

I am somewhat undecided on what to purchase a set of used belles or la scalas for 2 channel use. I do not have room for K-horns. For classical, and light rock, which speaker has better response. I have read about low bass response with la scalas, and the need for an additional sub. Speakers would be driven with Crown solid state amp and preamp. Please give me your input.

Thanks in advance,

hornlover60

[mustang guy]

The Lascala has a very slight edge acoustically and it is less expensive. The Belle is nicer looking and thus has a higher WAF (wife aceptance factor).

There are some who port their speakers and get lower bass response. There are those of us who match horn loaded subwoofers with theirs. There are those who eq some added bass.

[Chris A]

The Lascala has a very slight edge acoustically

Actually, I'd call it a draw based on what you like: the La Scala has a slightly longer midhorn due to its deeper design, but the Belle's bass bin is better braced, so actually has better performance over the La Scala I bass bin. (The La Scala II is a different story...).

There are some who port their speakers and get lower bass response.

This is done mostly by La Scala owners, but I can't comment on this. I think that I'd just add a good horn-loaded sub to complement the La Scala or the Belle (unless you have a VERY small listening room).

Belles aren't as deep, and this is a BIG factor in small rooms (the Belle's 18.75" vs. the La Scala's 24.5"). Belle's also hold their value better than La Scalas due to their more limited supply and (IMHO) much higher WAF.

Either way, I think that you'd be really happy if you integrate with a good sub.

EDIT: You do have an outstanding upgrade path using either the large K-402 horn or the much smaller K-510 horn with Klipsch-supplied driver. This upgrade separates the real audio enthusiasts from the casual ones, and results in a dramatic increase in audio fidelity, soundstage, and timbre balancing.

[garyrc]

I do not have room for K-horns.

Are you sure you don't have room? The extra space you would need for Khorns is basically straight up.

I have Khorns with a Belle center. The Khorns sound better. Earlier this year, I put a K401 horn on the Belle midrange to match the Khorns. The Khorns still sound better. I'm not saying the Belles are bad. They are effortless "present" speakers, and are better than many other speakers, including my Heresy IIs, my old JBLs, ADCs, and EVs. I'm quite happy with the Belle as a center only.

I also added a RSW15 sub for movies. It's fine for movies, but I sometimes switch it off to bask in the clarity of the Khorns and Belle.

In a 2 channel application all of this might be more critical.

As to bass, I was surprised to discover that my Belle -- in my room -- has a little peak at 60Hz, which helps hide the fact that there is no deep bass. From the same listening position, the Khorns don't have that peak, but they are in an entirely different position in the room (corners). Naturally the Khorns are far more dramatic below that, particularly at about 40 Hz. They have "authority."

As to "better response" over all ... in the past ... in uncontrolled auditioning ... the La Scala sounded a bit harsher to me. They dd use them for Judy Garland's final performance, which people say sounded great. In the '70s a dealer told me of the Belles "He [PWK] toned them down" compared to the La Scalas. And in his shop they sounded less harsh, but this was in two different rooms . Very unscientific. Somewhere on the forum there are Klipsch curves of Belle, La Scala, and many more posted by Garrison years ago.

According to the Audyssey room EQ I ran, my Heresy IIs are actually smoother than the Belles or the Khorns within the Heresy II's range, but the Belles and Khorns sound a lot better to me, in my room.

For classical big orchestra stuff, my Khorns are clearly better than the others. For small stuff, the Belles will do well.

[Quiet_Hollow]

I've listened to both models in the same room, using the same amp.

My ears definitely favor the La Scala [Y] , but I could easily see where the Belle has better WAF.

IMHO, the Belle cabinet parks the squawker and tweeter a tad too low to the floor...with the La Scala already as low as practical for L/R duty while maintaining the baffles normal to the listening position. But that's just me.*edit* Was visualizing the LaScala II.

As far as bass with either cab, you'll have to make the call personally.

If you're savvy with the EQ alone, you can get this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om3BvwaE5d8

but with a separate sub, you can get this:

[LarryC]

Are you sure you don't have room? The extra space you would need for Khorns is basically straight up.

I have Khorns with a Belle center. The Khorns sound better.

The K-horns tuck right back into a corner, whereas La Scalas frequently can stick out more into a room. OTOH, the edges of K's sometimes conflict with window sills and heat registers or pipes. You really need two adjacent uncluttered corners.

What are examples of horn-loaded subs? That sounds like pretty big to me.

EDIT: The Tuba? How does it sound? Full-range horn-loading is remarkable IMHO.

[Chris A]

IMHO, the Belle cabinet parks the squawker and tweeter a tad too low to the floor...with the La Scala already as low as practical for L/R duty while maintaining the baffles normal to the listening position. But that's just me.

That's interesting, because the last time I looked, the Belle was 1/8 inch taller than the La Scala I...

[tromprof]

Belles have the edge in looks, but a set of La Scalas are going to cost a lot less (there will always be someone who paid some really killer low price for a pair but not all of us are that lucky). The bass and overall sound is similar in both and I would think that you would be happy with either. I did build a sub for my La Scalas (tuba table) but am not currently using it with them as I moved them to a different room from the sub. For most music the La Scala bass (and Belle for that matter) is good enough. What I mean by that is that is it goes low enough for most music but not movies, not that it is deficient in any way. The bass is rather impressive but because the cabinet size is smaller that of a k-horn it just doesn't go as low. A La Scala can be dressed up BTW and look quite nice. Mine have a full grill over the front and look like Cornwalls but just a bit deeper. To solve the above complaint about height I built a riser for them. I do like k-horns better but all three speakers (k-horn, Belle, La Scala) sound very, very similar.

[Quiet_Hollow]

That's interesting, because the last time I looked, the Belle was 1/8 inch taller than the La Scala I...

Good catch. [:$] The picture in my head at the time was La Scala II.

[garyrc]

To solve the above complaint about height I built a riser for them. I do like k-horns better but all three speakers (k-horn, Belle, La Scala) sound very, very similar.

My Belle (center channel) is on a riser too, and like tromprof's, the riser fills in the space below with solid wood. Paul W. Klipsch cautioned against legs (as opposed to a riser, I guess) because the cavity underneath can degrade bass. Yes, it's good to have the Belle or La Scala's tweeter at sitting ear height, but by then you are approaching the height of a Khorn, so might as well .... Some people have a solid wood apron underneath to span the width of a room corner. Others have the Belle / La Scala flush mounted in a strong wall, which can help the bass.

[CIGARBUM]

Well, I like the Belles best. They are the only pair of Klipsch speakers I regret selling, they went to Winchester21. They were slightly modified and sounded grand.

Cigarbum

[Chris A]

Good catch. The picture in my head at the time was La Scala II.

The La Scala II is probably a bigger upgrade than a lot of people know: it's apparently a significant improvement to a classic design that many people have really fallen in love with. But I've always noticed the depth of the La Scala design was a significant factor to consider. It would be difficult for me to integrate one between my Jubs, but the Belle, in comparison, looks like it should be in the center (albeit raised 19+ inches above the floor level to be more on centerline with the flanking hf horns).

My sister-in-law gave up four La Scalas when she moved into a different house that couldn't handle them, even though she's got a bit more square footage now than she had.

I find that many houses are chopped up into little spaces that make it uninteresting from a audio perspective, and that causes one to compromise much more than desirable with loudspeakers.

I once toured a 5000+ square foot "tract mansion" house locally (thinking about buying at the time due to the low prices in real estate) that had something like 5 bedrooms, a game room, a playroom, a study, a dining room, a home theater, and a den/central area opening into two stories (double high ceiling, etc.). I would've had to completely redesign the interior walls in the house to get ONE room's acoustics right (even the HT room). What a waste of architecture square footage: too many rooms.

It's a shame, really.

Chris