dhsettim Posted June 12, 2002 Share Posted June 12, 2002 First I must thank Al Klappenberger for his great generosity in making his ALK crossover available to the public. TBrennan reports "PWK told Bruce Edgar he thought the speakers (Khorns)sounded best with simple 1st order crossovers" and "ruce Edgar has fiddled with and modded Khorns and told me they sounded far better with 1st order networks". Soooooo....I was wondering if any others on the forum had compared the two .I aim to build the ALKs but the simplicity of the Type A network as posted by John Albright is atractive. I have 1977 Khorns with the Type AA crossover, model B K-BR-B,serials nos. 15T193 & 4. thanks tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Tim, Since nobody else has commented on this, I'll say one thing. PWK went to the higher order filters becasue of blown tweeters. First order networks provide the tweeter with virtually no protection from high level lows. The jurey is still out on high order netwroks in my mind though. I am experimenting now with extreme crossover slopes in the range of 120 dB / Octave. We'll see! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhsettim Posted June 28, 2002 Author Share Posted June 28, 2002 Al, thanks for your insight.I had heard alot about 1st order crossovers but am planning to build yours--if that's ok.The Universal Ts have arrived, waiting on the Solen stuff, but the Hovlands are waiting on my bank balance recovery.Soon. Thanks again for your generosity tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted June 29, 2002 Share Posted June 29, 2002 I had AA's in my Klipschorns and replaced them with Al's ... no comparison. And BTW, to support Al's comments, both tweeter diaphragms had to be replaced. I've got Al's crossovers in my Cornwalls, Belle and Khorns and they all sound wonderful. I loved the B's that came with the Cornwalls, but to my poor ears, the ALK's sounded a bit better. It probably would have been a draw if the original caps hadn't been 35 years old. ------------------ "Bullsh*t!" -PWK- --------------------- TWO-CHANNEL SYSTEM Eico HF-81 Eico HFT-90 New Tube 4000 CD Player 1976 Klipschorns (KCBR's & ALK'ed) HOME THEATER Klipsch 1968 ALK Cornwall "II"s (LF/RF) ALK Belle Klipsch (Center) Klipsch Heresy (RR/LR) Klipsch KSW-12 sub Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Cornwalls) Sonic Frontiers Anthem AMP1 (driving Heresy's) Denon AVR-4800 Toshiba SD-3109 DVD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 about how much does it cost to make the ALK Crossovers for the La Scala??? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 If you follow Al's parts list, it is right at $200, and worth every penny of it. This message has been edited by jnorv on 06-30-2002 at 08:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 quote: Originally posted by jnorv: If you follow Al's parts list, it is right at $200, and worth every penny of it. is that each or for the pair? ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorv Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 For the pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 whew! ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryA Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 How much do Al's xovers cost ordered from him for replacement of my AA xovers in LaScalas? I really don't know if I'd take on the job of building them. Thanks, Gary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Gary I ordered mine today. Al charges $250 for each series A x-over. I am not up to the challange to build my own, so it is a deal to have an expert like Al to build me 3 matched x-overs. See his web site for contact info.. www.alkeng.com JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted July 4, 2002 Share Posted July 4, 2002 Prior to 1995 the 8ohm EV T-35 was sold by MCM for $50 so multiple arrays where not that big of a cost. In series they are 16ohm (-3db). Doubling of area gives +3db for net effect of 0db (good) AND tweeter power capacity doubles. So use the simple 1st order network with tweeter pairs, get better highs and stop listening to all those resistors, chokes, capacitors, etc.... OR, just put the T-35 on the shelf and get a tweeter with *real* power handling capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Last night I have finished building the type A crossover.I have used Solen 10awg litz inductor(I have let them break in for 2 weeks in my ALK crossover)and have used the 2.2mf hovland from the ALK and 13mf ppmfx multicaps the T2 from my original type AA. All I can say is WH W. I do think that simpler is better.I remember how I was impressed with the ALK's and now these guys sound better to my ears.The sound is fuller and the bass goes even lower and the mids are more detailed.I have listened to my father's JBL olympus loudspeakers few weeks ago and was hearing new things especially in the mids(JBL 375).I have listened to my Khorns after installing the new type A xovers and nothing is missing now. I understand that there's no tweeter protection but I normally listen to music at moderate levels and using a 20 watts tubed Marantz monoblocks.I can listen at lower levels now as well because of the extra bass weight. I really recommend the type A crossover to anyone with a low power tube or SS amps they are amazing and it is possible to build them by using most parts from the type AA crosover (by eliminating the tweeter protection diodes,2mf cap and a mid/tweeter inductor)if you like to experiment first,but I do recommend better parts. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 I would like to add that I know that some amplifiers may experience driving difficulties with the type A and for that reason the ALK xover is better in that respect by having a less demanding 8 ohm load and puts less energy to the tweeter.The ALK sounds much better than my previous type AA and probably better than most other xovers.If I would have been using a solid state amp or a budget tube amp,the ALK xover is STILL my first choice,but since that my Marantz model 2 amps are equipped with excellent output xformers and don't have any problems driving the Khorns,I'll stay with the type A for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Nice reading! I'm about to try the same thing myself,and if you mean the sound is fuller that's exactly what I was hoping to achieve..Sounds like music to my ears Did you use a 2.5mH inductor in the bass? Would you say they sound more open now? Happy listening!! Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Hello Rune, I was using a 2.4 mH Solen 10awg litz inductors.I have felt that the bass goes lower,the sound is more open and detailedand the focus was better as well. I think that you'll like the result. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted July 23, 2002 Share Posted July 23, 2002 Sounds like my taste,yes. By the way,have you tried different wires for internal wiring of your Khorn? I'm asking because the Monster cable can mush things up.If you use cleaner-sounding cables like Goertz,Audio Note or just plain solid core copper/silver you will get a more open presentation... I use 2.5 mm2 in one of my Khorn and to me it sound more natural(or more of your other equipments nature if you like) Take care! Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 I am using Transparent Audio musichord speaker cable for the internal wiring.It does sound cleaner. I am using OCOS for speaker wire and really recommend it.It sounds better than the Goerts silver and Vandenhhul revelation in my system.It is much cheaper and looks nice too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 24, 2002 Share Posted July 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by John Warren: Prior to 1995 the 8ohm EV T-35 was sold by MCM for $50 so multiple arrays where not that big of a cost. In series they are 16ohm (-3db). Doubling of area gives +3db for net effect of 0db (good) AND tweeter power capacity doubles. So use the simple 1st order network with tweeter pairs, get better highs and stop listening to all those resistors, chokes, capacitors, etc.... OR, just put the T-35 on the shelf and get a tweeter with *real* power handling capacity. John, Which tweeter do you recommend? Can an EV T350 be a direct replacement for the K77M in either 8 or 16 ohms variant? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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