MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Good Morning to all, Ok so I have a question regarding bass and bass traps. Ok I have more than enough bass as far as equipment goes but I noticed that the output in the low frequency dept. is lacking in my main sitting position. I can feel and hear the bass but it isnt what it should be. I have a very wide room 23 wide but only 12-13 foot long and 9 high. I have 4 theater seats and If I sit on the ends I hear much more bass but if I sit in the ideal front and center spot I dont hear or feel as much. The corners have absolutely massive output of bass when I walk towards them if I use Bass Traps in the right corner or acoustic panels will this help direct some for the bass towards the main sitting position? I can only put them in the right corner back wall ceiling or front wall. The left corner is the entrance to the theater room via stairs. This is a dedicated theater room and I have 4 KW-120 THX subs with 2 KA-1000s both are stacked and behind the towers in the two corners of front wall. Sorry this is a lengthy post but I wanted it to be detailed for the best response. Let me know if I can use bass traps in the rear right corner or acoustic panels anywhere. Id prob. Get 4 thick ones and where is the best place to get them? Thanks in advanc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 The far right back corner of the room which is empty is where I hear and feel the deepest and most powerful bass. If I were to use Corner reflecting panels (not sure if I should use absorption or reflective or bass traps at a 45 degree angel from the floor all the way to the ceiling would this reflect this bass back to the listening position possibly? Also where is the best place to buy bass traps and or acoustic reflection panels? I see on eBay there are some made by ATS for $45.00 for 4x24x48 any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Do a bass crawl. Put your sub in the main seating position and play either sine waves (doesn't have to be loud) or bass heavy material. Sine waves work best. Take an SPL meter and go around the perimiter of the room on the floor and see where you get the highest readings. Put your sub/s there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 GIK is where I bought my bass traps and sound panels. Made in the USA and great prices. Don't buy anything till you reposition your subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2013 Bass traps do just what they say, they trap and prevent LF frequencies from reflecting off the corners. When bass hits a corner and reflects back into the room, there are places in the room where the sound waves meet. The purpose of acoustic panels and bass traps is to prevent some of the reflections from occurring so that you have a more even bass response throughout the room and added clarity for the high frequencies. That is my simple understanding of how it works. If you buy them from a company, you could spend $50 or more per panel. Check out ATS, GIK. If you are somewhat handy, you can make them for probably $15 - $20 each. Lots of forums in the AVS Forum for ideas on how to make them yourself. Make a rectangular frame, add 703 Owens Corning insulation, wrap it in fabric of your choice and you are set. You can see mine here. I've had mine for awhile now and they definitely added clarity to the mids and highs and smoothed out the bass response. I have bass traps in three corners of the room and 10 Acoustic Panels throughout my room (4 are behind the false wall). One day, I'll actually get around to hanging them on the wall instead of just sitting on the floor leaning up against the wall. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for the insanely quick responses. Ok I have done the crawl test a few times and repositioned the 4 thx subs a few times and where I have them by far is the best spot and the most massive output area. I just noticed about double the deep bass and response in the sides as well as the front and corners. Im assuming I have a standing wave issue at the main seating position. This is a dedicated home theater room and I cant get bass traps that look great in the far right corner or behind the subs in the two front corners if you guys think that will help. I will try to post some pics of the room to show you what I mean but the two theater seats in the ideal middle get bass but nothing compared to the sides. Just want to find a way to direction some of it towards the middle etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Bass traps don't redirect bass to the seating position. They absorb waves that would ultimately bounce back into the room and cancel other waves out. If you've re-positioned your subs and are SURE phase is correct then it's time for some traps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hey youthman, I was thinking of adding a few panels to the back wall behind the theater seats and the sides? Maybe I should do that before buying bass traps to see how it evens out the response? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 I just re-read your response. If you have 4 subs, have you tried one sub centered on each wall? That should be ideal placement per a Harman white paper. If unpractical, try one sub in each corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Hey youthman, I was thinking of adding a few panels to the back wall behind the theater seats and the sides? Maybe I should do that before buying bass traps to see how it evens out the response? Sound absorption panels to cancel first reflections and bass traps are two different animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yes everything has been repositioned and the phase is in the correct spot. If I walk around the entire room I can hear and feel that bass almost entirely in the room the only spot I dont hear and feel it as much (but still a little) is in my darn seating position. Again it is extremely powerful on the sides and rear back corners so im up for suggestions from you guys where to start. I can get some 4 ATS black panels and put them on the sides and rear wall or Traps for the rear two or front two corners. But im going to continue reading from you guys before I purchase anything. I think the best spot would be the rear right corner cause that is where it seems the most bass is and is thus being directed back towards the middle creating a standing wave where my theater seats are? I cant post pictures of the room until I get home this evening but when I get home Ill take several photos of the room from a few angles and post them here and see what you guys suggest as far as panels and bass traps for a corner or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 deally I cant put one at each wall the theater seats are against the back wall and have the speakon cables for the subs all for the front main wall. The only thing I could do is move the subs left or right on the front wall but I have the most output in the two corners of the main wall and I like having the towers in their spot they are perfect there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2013 People think just because you have a dedicated HT that you don't have limitations. I know I do with mine. [] I have both of my subs in between my main speakers. One thing you might want to do is turn off 3 subs and see how it sounds in your main seat. Then turn another on and listen etc. You might find that one sub is causing the cancellation of the waves in your primary listing position. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I know have limitations lol. The wallet being one of them heh. I tried Turning off and on subs and I def. have the best response with all 4 active and a considerable increase with them stacked 2 in each corner slightly behind the towers. Seems like a lot of bass is all in those two rear corners next to my theater seats and Im assuming after reading all the helpful comments that the bass is so heavy at the front and rear corners that they are cancelling somewhere near my seats so thats why I was wondering about a good heavy bass trap (found one for 140.00 on ebay) for the right rear corner where I have the most bass. On a second note youthman. I see you are also using a parasound amp with a pre/pro. I have just purchased a Parasound 5250 v2 for (1500.00 brand new with KCAG interconnects) but havent installed and since you are using rf83s rc 64 etc. did you notice a considerable difference when using the dedicated pre/pro with a power amp? Im extremely excited to install the new toy this weekend but havent had time yet. The Elite SC-55 sounds fantastic but from all the research I did when searching for a amp a lot of people have said it opens things up and creates better channel separation, better mids etc. Just wondering what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks for all the great Input everyone Im still going to post up to date photos tonight of the room and im going to order 2 ATS acoustic panels to go behind the listening area and one ATS 48 Bass Trap for the rear right corner where the most powerful bass is being reflected back to my listening area. The rear two panels should help with any mids and echo of the room and if I place them behind the theater seats i.e. my head on the back wall that is where the L,R towers are pointed and should make some nice sound improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 did you notice a considerable difference when using the dedicated pre/pro with a power amp? I’m extremely excited to install the new toy this weekend but haven’t had time yet. The Elite SC-55 sounds fantastic but from all the research I did when searching for a amp a lot of people have said it opens things up and creates better channel separation, better mids etc. Just wondering what you think. When I went from a 2004 flagship NAD T773 receiver/Acurus amps combo to my current NAD T175HD pre/pro, there was a noticeable difference but not night and day because the older T773 sounded really good. The HT processing, video upscaling, and channel seperation was definitely better but 2-channel music was only marginally better than a lateral movement. Again, the older NAD is a great sounding receiver. As mentioned before, your Pioneer Elite SC-55 has a wonderful preamp section that I bet rivals many a pre/pro. Try out the Pioneer/Parasound combo for a while and then decide if "upgrading" to a pre/pro is worth the time, effort, and $$$. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 eah Im going from using just the Elite SC-55 to The Elite with a separate power amp the Parasound so I cant wait to hear the difference. I havent have a pre/pro plus dedicated amp set up before and I can tell the RF-83s need some pushing. I mostly watch movies 80% music 20% so Im really looking for the upgrade in the mids/channel separate/more discrete details at higher volumes which is what a lot of people have told me. Def. going to use the elite SC-55 as a preamp for a while though. On a side note I read that the SW setting should be put on Yes instead of Plus if you have capable subs and have all speakers on small which mine are. They say you will get muddy bass with it set to PLUS. I hope this may clear up some of the standing wave issues and also I need to re-run the mcacc with EQ off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 10, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 10, 2013 My knowledge of proper acoustic placement is limited but I would think adding panels to your first reflection point would yield a much better result than adding to your back wall. My thinking is the sound coming off the back wall is hitting the back of your ears while the reflected sound off your side walls is hitting you face on. My understanding is the sound coming from directly from your speakers hits your ears slightly before the reflected sound onto your side walls to your ears. When that happens, your brain somewhat gets confused and the sound is muffled or unclear as it could be. So by adding panels at the first reflection point, you prevent that bounced sound and the dialog is much clearer. Good thing with panels is you don't have to mount them to the wall before deciding how many you need and where to place them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Youthman's assessment is correct. In adition ALWAYS re-run your room correction software after anything is changed in the room, especially the addition of any panels or traps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Interesting but the physics makes sense in what your saying. I ordered (2) 2x24x48 panels from ATS so Ill try placing them first on the side walls and listen etc. before mounting them re-run MCACC and of course set my sub option to YES instead of PLUS see how that sounds. From there I can always order the Bass Trap afterwords if needed. If im sitting in the theater seats facing the TV on my left rear corner is the stairs that enter the room and there is one Window that was completely blacked out using a Sound proof theater curtain. Would I maybe yield any results by trying to place the two panels on the ceiling for better clearer vocals audio etc? I could always order more later on if I find this to improve audio The floor is very thick carpet which I had the builder also install extra padding so I know the sound floor is great just wondering about the ceiling. Would you guys suggest Sub Risers to go under the 4 THX Subs? I would need 2 one for each pair that is stacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.