MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I moved the theater seats about 5" off the back wall and reran mcacc with the sub output on yes instead of plus. Wowwwwwww what a difference. Bass is much more forceful and deep and I can really hear more separation on in the 4 rears. Just test it with Jurassic park and I could hear lots of detail and good pans. Hi miss Angie. How are you?Still thinking of putting a trap in the corner. May put the panels in-between the mains and stand under the rb81s before mounting see how they sound. Thanks for the input youth man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 11, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2013 Panels are a good thing. They will only help. You may just have to play around with placement of them to see what yields the best result in your room. Glad you are making progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I am just guessing at this, but since your width is exactly twice your length, your axial room modes at multiples of about 25HZ long ways, and 50HZ short ways. It seems to me having a room that is exactly twice as long as it is wide is a recipe for lots of dead spots of the same frequency. I'm thinking the center of the room will have no 25 or 50 HZ at higher volumes. 50HZ is what hits you in the chest, and 25 is a very important LFE note. I am sorry if I have completely butchered the math and explanation of room modes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I found this information: ROOM RATIOS The worst type of room shape is a perfect cube - say, ten feet long, ten feet wide, and ten feet high - because all three dimensions are the same and all three dimensions resonate at the same frequency. A 10 foot cube shaped room will have a strong inherent resonance near 55 Hz, which is the open A string on a bass. So when that low A is played it will sound much louder than other notes. Such a room also has a longer natural decay time at that pitch, so A notes will sustain longer and conflict with other bass notes that follow. A room whose dimensions are multiples of each other - for example, 10 feet by 20 feet - is nearly as bad because many of the same frequencies are emphasized. Therefore, the goal is to have a room shape that spreads the modes evenly throughout the low frequency range. This is done by designing the room with dimensions whose ratios of length, width, and height are as unrelated as possible. And here is where ModeCalc is useful because it tells you at what frequencies the modes occur and how close together they are. ModeCalc also shows you the ratios of the dimensions you entered, and lets you compare them to ratios commonly recommended by acoustic engineers and studio designers." The website is: http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hmm, at least the rooms isnt equal lengths and it is at odd numbers. 23x13x9 but I see where you are getting at. Any suggestions for bass sub placement then? I do get much better bass now that I have re-run mcacc and set the subs to yes instead of plus. I thought about bringing in the two stack extremely close to the entertainment center in-between the mains and then angling them a little towards the main listening position or should I leave them be at this point and possibly just try a bass trap in the rear left corner for even better results then Im getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Would it be impractical to "turn" the room. In other words, have yout TV on the short wall as opposed to the long wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Yeah I really love the placement and the overall sound quality with the setup I have. I love the separation of the l,r,c and I like where the surrounds are now that I have moved the seat up 5s from the back wall I can really hear my rear 4 channels since I re-ran mcacc. I have even though about putting those two acoustic panels behind the listening area on the rear wall to see how that reflects sound behind me. (will place them there before mounting anything.) Other problem would be my entertainment unit is 10 wide then to put kw 120s and towers etc the room wouldnt be wide enough. Theater seats are 14 wide and wouldnt fit between the walls either. Overall I love this setup and wired the room for it when I had the house built last year. Thanks for the input though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 If you're only getting 2 panels, I'd be tempted to put one horizontally above the sculpture and one on the ceiling where a mirror would show it needs to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I was definitely thinking of placing one on the ceiling horizontally. I cant place one above the sculpture since the dolby digital sign is there. I dont have much of an echo right now I did the clapping test last night so I hope that the 2 panels will create just a little bit better sound field. I will do the mirror test on the ceiling and I know spacing ppl say to do 6 inches or so between panels. Would you think placing 2 panels horizontally on the ceiling would be ok or one on the ceiling and one on the back wall behind the listening position? Of course I can play around with them before mounting just wondering if you think two on the ceiling would be decent? How come I see a lot of set up with acoustic panels on the viewing wall next to the left and right speakers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 2 on the ceiling or 1 on the ceiling and one behind you would be fine. I'd try the latter 1'st. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Michael I seen in the suwoofer section that your sub is at -12 in the GUI menu. You need to address this first before doing anything else to fix the bass in the room. You may not need bass trap and may be able to get good bass at the main seating area once things are setup correctly. I can help along with othe Pioneer owners if some of this is confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Hey derrick I re-ran mcacc last night and got somewhat better response it is now telling me to put the sub at +7db and everything else is around -7.5 etc. ok with both the ka-1000;s up around 75% and the sub at -2db (I adjusted it a little after the mcacc was complete) I can feel and hear great bass. Of course near the back corners the bass is twice as deep and loud but it is still deep and loud where I am sitting. If I were to increase the db output on the gui to in the positive and listen to my system in the -12 or -14 range would the amount of bass coming from 4 KW1000 possibly be damaging to those speakers? I meant so far I have put up the volume before fairly loud and it seem nothing I throw at them can hurt them but then again id hate to damage them. If I were to put the volume on the elite receiver up to say -14 and I had the db gui at +7 my god the bass at my seating position would sound amazing but I cant imagine the amount of bass in the rear corners id be half scared to do that and risk breaking those subs. they arent cheap. Please let me know any insight on this if you can. Last night after my mcacc was complete (I ran the test without eq on and the overall quality is by far so much better) I put the eq back on for movies etc and it just sounds fantastic.) I listened to Jurassic park and overall my 7 channels sounded the best they have so far and the bass is great at -2db on the GUI but am I risking hurting those subs if I put the bass up more on the GUI? By the way I am using boundary gain compensation for the subs. without it the L freq is just way to much and I can feel my darn seats moving but I for some reason dont get that mid deep bass. Seems I cant get the best from both worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 You should be able to turn the avr to 0 without damaging anything. I am a little confused on your settings. Go into MCACC, Home menus, then MCACC Data Check, this will take you to speaker setting, ect. Looking for Standing Wave, under standing wave look at the subwoofer setting and see what the trim level is. It should be near 0. If it is +4 you need to turn the sub amp up. If it is -4 you need to turn the sub amp down. This all has to do with the voltage signal from the preamp. For example, at +4, the voltage may be to low for the auto on feature and lead to the sub amp clipping the signal. Ideally you should never adjust the levels more than 6 db from the MCACC setting. With the seats in HT on the back wall, the bass is going to be heavy along the corners and some of the wall. Even with wall Tx's, this may not be correctable. We all have room limitations. If you could change around the seating that would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 PS, I would consider moving the RF 83's from the corner and put them under the front height speakers. The way DDPLIIz works is to take spatial cluse from the 2 ch. stereo and distribute them to the height channels. Incorrect setup of height speakers is why some people don't get good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ok Ill look up the the standing wave trim when I get home from work this evening. I did notice with placing the seats up a bit now 6 from the back wall the overall auraral experience was by far better. I can clearly hear each individual speaker better in the 4 rears and the bass was much much better. I will look at the trim though regardless I did put the KA-1000 volume quite a bit after testing but I think I may re-run mcacc one more time and only adjust the bass volume via the GUI. I believe I understand now why it wanted the volume of the subs to +12db since the KA-1000 were down so low. Lol. Thanks for the input Derrik and Ill let you know how the sound is after one final test. As far as adjusting the db under manual speaker set up. I usually put the L,C,R up just a tad after mcacc is complete and they have always equaled. I.e. L was -8.5 C was -8.5 R was -8.5 I only put them up 1 db each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I also think I am going to move my Alien statue to the right rear corner flush against the back wall to the right of my theater seats and put a reflection panel where everyone has suggested under the Dolby digital sign. I think aesthetically it will look the best there and via the mirror test last night that was the correct spot as well. Next step mount acoustic panels, set up my Parasound amp and re-run mcacc and put on some classic star wars and enjoy THX style heh. You guys have all been so helpful really happy to be part of the klipsch forums. Tax time just a couple weeks away then looking at a Theata Casablanca 3. Found one new for around $5100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Ill move the 83 and check it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Have you tried putting one of your subs close to the lp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 14, 2013 Author Share Posted January 14, 2013 After a busy weekend and some positioning etc. I took the advice of placing the tower speakers under the height channels directly, also have positioned the subs slight closer to the listening position and brought them 5 off the back wall and ran MCACC. And what do you know it I was able to create the same deep bass in the corner at the sweet spot listening area. Thanks for all the help. Now to set up the Parasound AMP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 14, 2013 Share Posted January 14, 2013 Outstanding![<)][Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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