HDBRbuilder Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Most of you folks realize by now how much I like my old 1975 era Harman/Kardon 900+!! For a solid state receiver...it is extremely smooth, virtually noise-free and is probably as close as I have ever heard to a tube set-up out of solid state!! Just something about the H/K twin powered jobs of that era that none of the other S/S seem to have...at least to MY ears!! Later H/K stuff just never seemed to be as good!! Well...I have done it again!! I just got the high bid on a H/K 800+ on eBay the other night!! This is the younger brother of the 900+...22 watts per channel in quad mode...strapped gives 50 watts per channel in stereo mode...as compared to the 32/90 of the 900+...rest of the features are basically identical to each other. Seller emphatically states it is in excellent working condition...everything functions at or better than original specs and it has been seldom used over the years...was clean as a whistle inside, too!! Next stop...tubes...and the redo of my recently purchased LaScalas....I wonder what OAK LaScalas would look like?...hmmmm....I just might do that!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 I didn't know you just got some Scalas -- that's great! I know how much you love that old Heritage sound, and I'm happy as all get out for you. Are you gonna listen to them with cotton in your ears Kidding! Just kidding! Honest! I swear! It would be nice to see some pics when you get 'em done. I can't even imagine what someone with your background can do with those cabinets. Congratulations on your new addition!! ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Psalm 122:6f>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Deang, I got a pair of em out of Indiana a month or so ago for 610 bucks, shipping and all!! The cabinets are kinda rough...haven't decided exactly what I am gonna do...am seriously considering just building some new cabinets out of 9-ply OAK veneer plywood...same basic thing as original 9-ply birch, but with oak veneer, instead. But, even though the new cabinets may be considered a "clone" by some, the construction quality will meet or exceed that of the company in the 70's...just a few minor changes in order to stiffen the boxes somewhat...and NO PLYS WILL SHOW, either!! No puttied nail holes in the sides either!! More time-consuming doing it this way...but the results will be worth it!! All functional aspects of the design (ie., dimensions of everything in final finished product) will remain unchanged!! Trust me, they will be a ONE of a KIND pair!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 If anyone can build them right it would be you. If I had your skills that's what I'd do. My first rule of audio -- "Never listen to an ugly speaker" Mind as well do it right -- if you don't, you'll always be thinking about it. Where do you people find these insane deals -- in the Twilight Zone? ------------------ Deanf>s> Cary AE-25 * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Psalm 122:6f>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 HDBRbuilder, This is just a question from a gadfly on the wall. What happened to rebuilding the LaScalas with the 1 inch ply you mentioned in another post of remove cabinet resonance and add stiffness to the long sides? Inquiring minds want to know. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 Dean - I'm with you on the ugly speakers. As you know, I just picked up my La Scala's this past weekend and ended up dropping them off at Q-Man's house. There was no way I was bringing them into the house without dolling them up first. Q-Man has already stripped the old lacquer off and is currently in the process of filling in the gouges, scratches and veneer chips. He is on his 4th fill/sand routine and said it will only take a couple more. He also is putting some birch edge banding on the front, under the grill molding, which hides the exposed plys on the face of the cabinet. And last but not least, he is going to spray them with black lacquer (at $148/gallon ) but I bet they are beautiful when he gets done with them. Will let you know as he will have before/after pictures for us. Builder - Congrats on the Scala's. Let us know how they turn out for you. Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 20, 2002 Author Share Posted June 20, 2002 Jazman, The primary resonance problem associated with the LaScala can be found in its side panels...and, therein it is further narrowed down to the lack of stiffening at the mouth of the folded horn on those sides. For most homebuilders(and even the factory), this problem could be, at the very least, considerably lessened by using 1" plywood for the sides instead of 3/4" plywood...and this is readily available in birch veneer, although it is considerably more expensive than the 3/4" birch plywood of the same quality. But it normally requires a custom order to get 1" plywood of the same quality interior plys that is oak veneered...and it is EXTREMELY costly!! BUT...there are other ways to stiffen the front edge of the 3/4" plywood used on the sides...it just takes alot more labor to do so...and an increase in materials...but not nearly as much of an increase as custom ordered plywood is!! I am still trying to decide on exactly which method I will use in building these...gears are turning here...LOL! I do know this much though: 1. In order to eliminate the puttied nail holes in the sides of LaScalas, it requires that the attachment method be done without nails being put there, which requires hidden fastening. Therefore, I am planning this: a. The upper panel on the bass bin(at the top of the "doghouse" will be cut over width so that it can be glued and clamped into a 1/4" deep dado in the sides...and further secured by glue blocks running from front to rear ABOVE that panel in the mid-high housing...to the sides of the speaker...this will provide equal or better stiffness at that construction point and eliminate the nail holes showing on the outside of the speaker there. It also provides for a bit more glue surface in the joint there than just a plain butt joint would, again increasing strength!! b. The back of the bass bin will be attached to the sides with fasteners from the REAR instead of the sides...this will eliminate the nail holes running from top to bottom along the speaker sides at their rear edge. This will be done by using a double- overlapping joint at those seams...requiring both the sides and the back to have those edges rabbetted to accomplish this...resulting in an almost DOUBLING of glue surface, which in turn provides much greater strength than just a lap-joint at those seams. This method will also be used to attach the reinforcing top piece to the upper part of the mid/high housing's rear, and the top....fasteners being installed from the rear instead of the sides and top...again eliminating visibility of fasteners from anywhere except the cabinet back...at these joints. 2. In order to eliminate the plys of the cabinet tops from showing, I will use a full 45 degree miter joint at the front edge and side edges of the top. This joint will be reinforced from INSIDE the high/mid-range housing with full length glue blocks running front to rear, BUT it will be only PARTIALLY reinforced along the top's front edge with two glue blocks in the inside...one running from each side towards the tweeter flange, with a short gap for the left-to-right length of the tweeter horn mouth flange. The rear of the cabinet top will be fastened to the left to right crosspiece using afore-mentioned double-overlapping joint technique and, again, fastened from the rear. 3. The front cabinet panel to which the tweeter and mid-horn mouth flanges are attached will be mitered at its top edge to accomplish elimination of the visibility of the cabinet top's plys. it will ALSO be mitered along its vertical side edges, so as to eliminate the plys from sides' front edges from showing on each side of it. Again, there will be vertical reinforcing glue blocks behind this joint on the inside of the mid/high housing. The bottom edge of this motorboard panel will be attached in the same manner as on the factory-made ones, EXCEPT the lap-joint will be replaced with a double-overlapping joint as on the rear, so that no nail holes show at the front of the speaker either...with this panel being fastened with fasteners running UPWARDS into its bottom edge THROUGH the bottom of the Front edge of the panel at the top of the "doghouse". Again...partial reinforcing of this Bottom joint from inside the housing with glue blocks will be made...they will be very short ones, though...since the mid-horn mouth flange takes up most of that area inside the upper housing along that seam...BUT that is no big deal since the joint there will be stronger than the factory joint anyway, even without the reinforcing glue blocks!! 4. The cabinet bottom(Not the panel that covers the doghouse "door opening", but the bottom panel that is attached to the bottom of the "doghouse", itself) will also utilize double overlapping joints along its side edges to attach the sides to it...fasteners being applied from the bottom INSTEAD of through the sides....this eliminates the nail holes along the bottom edge of the sides, and, again provides a greater glue surface, giving a stronger joint there. 5. Stip veneer will cover the front edges of the plys of the sides from the bottom of the speaker to the upper housing where the miters hide those edges. Strip veneer will also be used across the front edge plys showing on the speaker bottom panel. 6. A note on these reinforcing glue blocks. They will be pre-drilled and counter-suck for bugle-head screws, but will be initially bradded on just enough to hold them in place until the glue sets up, then they will be securely attached with screws...I have found this the best method in order to eliminate "walking" of the blocks when trying just to secure them with screws ONLY while the glue is still wet!! All of this is ALOT more work...and more time-consuming...but it provides a cabinet that is alot prettier, with no nail holes showing or edge plys showing....and it also has the added benefit of having STRONGER joints throughout those areas!!! If you are familiar with how a LaScala is built, you should have been able to follow what I just wrote fairly well...if you aren't familiar with the construction of a LaScala...SORRY!!!!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-21-2002 at 12:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted June 20, 2002 Share Posted June 20, 2002 HDBRbuilder, Though I don't own a pair of LaScalas, I could follow and understand. You've addressed problems of rigidity and aesthetics at the same time. As wonderful as LaScalas sound, the unfinished look has always been a tough sell for me at least. Please, no bricks from LaScala lovers here. I've always wanted a pair but always knew I would have to do a refresher cabinet makers class to do them justice. You're already there. Thanks. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 On the subject of old H/K's...... Harman Kardon built an integrated amp in the 80's - the model PM665 integrated amplifier. It was one of the last units that HK made with a separate power supply for each channel. I see these on ebay occasionally; very reasonable. This amplifier will rock the world with Klipsch Heritage. My friend had one with his 88 birch Cornwall II's and it was a match made in heaven - especially for you rock and rollers!! Clean, natural, and LOUD!! It would be an excellent, inexpensive amp solution for someone wanting a 2 channel system on the cheap. It's one of the best SS 2 channel integrateds around - you would need to go separates to beat the performance of this unit. It's only rated at 100 WPC - but you would never believe it after listening to it. Put simply - a vintage bargain!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Reed Posted June 21, 2002 Share Posted June 21, 2002 HDBR: I'm currently getting everything together to build Oiled Oak LaScala's. You just described almost verbatim how I plan to build mine. The only difference is, I plan to incorporate biscuit joinery for added strength. I've built LaScala's before, you really do learn a lot by building, rather than haveing someone describe the procedure to you. Someone's first pair is generally the "learning curve" pair. When you were at the factory, what was the order the panels were assembled? Thanks, Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 21, 2002 Author Share Posted June 21, 2002 Tony Reed, Order in which LaScalas were assembled when I worked there using standard factory construction method: Note: All parts assembled below already have their routed openings completed, holes for mounting of components are already pre-drilled, etc. 1. Assemble two each beveled pieces to each other at miter, 2 each assemblies(these are the first parts of the folded horn sometimes called LaScala wings...assembled up day before doghouse is assembled). 2. Doghouse roof panel to doghouse side panel, 2 each assemblies(note that the doghouse itself is built up a day before the rest of the cabinet is assembled). 3. Splitter and beveled pieces assemblies to cabinet back panel using a jig to draw lines for positioning, and another jig to give nail lines, 1 each assembly. 4. Woofer motorboard(insert t-nuts first) to back assembly, 3 above.(using tape measure for alignment and jigs for nail lines) 5. Doghouse roof/side assemblies to # 4 above(and to each other at "peak" of doghouse roof)..this completes doghouse pre-assembly. 6. Doorpanel(bottom)to doghouse (using jigs for nail lines, tape measure for alignment, etc) 7. Mid/high section motorboard(front) to that housing's bottom panel(top of doghouse in woofer section) 8. Attach #7 assembly to doghouse(using jigs for nail lines, tape measure to ensure alignment, etc.) 9. Attach cabinet sides to assembly in # 8 above. 10. Attach reinforcing rear horizontal top piece between sides of assembly 9 above. 11. Attach cabinet top to assembly 10 above. 12. Attach(screw) doghouse door(bottom panel) to assembly 11 above. (weather stripping for door seal to be applied to this panel before attaching). This piece is normally left off until final assembly and the gliders are temporarily installed in the cabinet bottom until the speaker gets to final assembly. 13. Put speaker on floor, slide it towards sanding room door. Of course the way I would build OAK LASCALAS requires some changes in the order of assembly...from what I gave above. Hope I gave enough detail for ya! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-21-2002 at 09:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 21, 2002 Author Share Posted June 21, 2002 DNDPHISHIN, Those old twin-powered jobs were ultra-wide band frequency response babies with +/- 0.5 db across their frequency range...low noise and hum ratio(normally better than -75 db) and after H/K ended them in production...it seems things went to hell in a handbasket in their products. There were a few lemons in the old days too...but for the most part, they were great performers...cleanest sounding s/s stuff around in its day...especially at the prices asked for them...not inexpensive, but still not over-priced, either!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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