JBryan Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I have a few of the testers listed. The ones you've mentioned will test all your tubes but if you ever get into older tubes (4 pin triodes for example), the 6000 (and 8000) series wont test them. The 539 b & c are the most versatile in that they allow for separate bias and voltage testing but are by far the most expensive and probably more than you'll need (unless you can find one cheap). My 2 favorites are the 605a (similar to the 600/800 series but with a voltage meter that I never use) and the 752. The 752 would be very useful if you're checking a lot of driver tubes (dual triode). It allows you to check both sides of the tube without resetting which saves a lot of time. The 600 or 800 series testers will do what you need and offer the best bang for the buck but keep in mind that none of the testers you've listed will 'match' tubes nor will they accurately indicate tube life. A tube that tests to spec on the Hickoks may be new or it may have a lot of hours on it and fail soon after you plug it in. Some modern testers are more accurate and test at actual operating current/voltage so you can match tubes (better) but they are either more expensive or very limited in the tube types they can test. Don't get me wrong, the Hickoks are great testers and they do offer plenty of useful data about tubes but they can only tell you if the tube is operating to spec at that moment, under those conditions and will not accurately indicate future, real-world performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The 600 or 800 series testers will do what you need and offer the best bang for the buck but keep in mind that none of the testers you've listed will 'match' tubes nor will they accurately indicate tube life. A tube that tests to spec on the Hickoks may be new or it may have a lot of hours on it and fail soon after you plug it in. Some modern testers are more accurate and test at actual operating current/voltage so you can match tubes (better) but they are either more expensive or very limited in the tube types they can test. Don't get me wrong, the Hickoks are great testers and they do offer plenty of useful data about tubes but they can only tell you if the tube is operating to spec at that moment, under those conditions and will not accurately indicate future, real-world performance. I've also noticed that on the life of a tube that testing as "new" really doesn’t mean a tube has a long life left. It seems to me in relation to the tubes that I’ve bought new, the tube will continue to test new for about 80% or so of its life (keeping in mind the +/- 7% - 9% deviation of accuracy on my upgraded tester). The test scores would drop when it was in the last 20% of its life. I think as a hobbyist without noticing this trend, I would have thought the tube would just gradually wear down similar to a tire, but they don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 In reading the above I have drawn a possible new conclusion. If I want to avoid having a collection of testers in the future if I become serious about tubes and even buying/selling, I need to get something trustworthy to the industry. If all I were doing were technician duties, the 600, 700 or 800 series Hickok and their ilk would be sufficient. As you stated, there are no guarantees, and that would specifically be true with power tubes. There are however, testers which can provide more reliable results than others. What tester would you trust most if you were buying a pair of Mullard EL37's for example? Would it be something new like the Amplitrex AT-1000, or a specific model from the past like the RCA WT100A or the Triplet 3444A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 In reading the above I have drawn a possible new conclusion. If I want to avoid having a collection of testers in the future if I become serious about tubes and even buying/selling, I need to get something trustworthy to the industry. If all I were doing were technician duties, the 600, 700 or 800 series Hickok and their ilk would be sufficient. As you stated, there are no guarantees, and that would specifically be true with power tubes. There are however, testers which can provide more reliable results than others. What tester would you trust most if you were buying a pair of Mullard EL37's for example? Would it be something new like the Amplitrex AT-1000, or a specific model from the past like the RCA WT100A or the Triplet 3444A? I don’t believe that the Triplett 3444A is a laboratory model and will have precision issues similar as other service testers (although the precision may be somewhat tighter). I believe that the RCA WT100A may be a laboratory model, but it will be extremely rare and costly and nearly impossible to find a qualified tech to work on it. If my budget and involvement would warrant the Amplitrex AT-1000, that would be my choice. However, I’ve been pulled in too many different directions wanting to explore both tube and solid state simple circuit amplifiers and in learning about other aspects of the “chain of audio” from the recorded signal to how it reaches my ear. The most common testers you will find in these various secondary markets are service testers and as mentioned, most do not test in real world operating conditions, but perform more of a proportional test. The tube is essentially tested at an operating voltage below tube specifications on the tube data sheet values. If the test results are proportionally close to the tube data sheet value, the tube is considered good. Then we have the calibration issue where the better testers have a calibrated precision of an accuracy of +/- 10%; therefore, you have a range of 20% from high to low. The cheaper tube testers can typically be +/- 15% calibrated precision of accuracy. Now we have a 30% range from high to low. All tube testers will require maintenance and calibration periodically. However, it seems that the number of qualified technicians has decreased in the last several years and the techs still performing services seem to be back-logged for several months. I started out with the B&K and still use it, but when I wanted to upgrade, I focused on a few tester models that I believed to be of the higher quality and had flexibility in the tests that could be performed. Actually, another reason I ended up with the 539b/c model was that it was one of the higher end models of service tester in the Hickok line, there are multiple tests (i.e. shorts, leakage tests, gas test, multiple operating voltages and plate voltages, etc.), upgrading was available to increase the precision somewhat, and you can still find a lot of documentation on the model. I guess if I had free reign to spend your money and didn’t want to take an intermediate step (i.e. Hickok 600A), I would go with the Amplitrex. An intermediate step can be productive if a person takes the time to learn about what they are doing and what they want to do. The problem I see is that many people end up making lateral moves and just keep repeating the same intermediate step. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I just bought my new tester this morning, Dam Ebay, now iv gone back and polked around, bidding on a Yaesu ham rig, and here the more I try to get out of the hobby the more deals suck me back in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Why not find some sort of a vacuum tube curve tracer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 (edited) Why not find some sort of a vacuum tube curve tracer? Look at the difficult time this thread has had getting people to talk about pros, cons, & experience with basic tube testing equipment. He would probably need to join some type of electronic equipment/tube circut design forum. pros? cons? Any thoughts on various models that have reasonable availability and price? The more I get into the First Watt clones, the more I don't understand, but it seems that understanding the operating curves in matching those devices would be interesting and beneficial to the amp. Seems like it is almost impossible and really expensive to find a Tek 576. What about those Haggerman models? Even then a person would need to buy a scope. I'm not sure what is out there that would be accurate and affordable to the hobbyist. http://www.haglabs.com/vacutrace.html I've often wondered about this DIY unit to build. http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3.html Edited February 2, 2014 by Fjd 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I've often wondered about this DIY unit to build. http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3.html Now you have me wondering as well. Thanks for posting that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 I've often wondered about this DIY unit to build. http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3.html Now you have me wondering as well. Thanks for posting that. Looks for about $500 or so (~ $300 USD for the parts kit + $200 for case, computer power supply, other parts, etc.) you could have a failry powerful tool instead of just a hobbyist's toy. Given there are several parts that are small in size and lead spacings, I would need better eyes and more steady hands to do all of the soldering necessary. I've got another fine-pitch DIY pre-amp project with SMD parts that I'm going to pay one of the guys to do the soldering of those components to make sure it is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 The uTracer kits are approximately $275 plus shipping from Netherlands. You would still need to source a case, power supply, sockets and wires, etc. It comes with the pcb, components, and microcontroller. Looks pretty cool! In looking at the blogs, and the build photos, I know it is over my head. Go check out some of the build pictures: http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag9.html As for me, I will defer to those who are actually competent to take on such a daunting challenge. It comes with software which can be downloaded. I think it's a usb interface... The Hagerman VacuTrace at $1950 is expensive, but is already put together. It seems like the best of all worlds would be to buy an Aplitrex AT-1000 and a Hagerman VacuTrace. That is a serious investment, but if a person were selling tubes, test results from them would be unquestionable. Those tubes would demand a higher valuation, and would quickly grow a customer base. I have visited tubeworld a few times when looking at values and hard to find tubes. They are a trusted vendor and even they don't provide the information these two testers could. I am not spending $5,000 to be that person. I am glad I brought up the subject, however. Once again I have learned so much in the Klipsch forums! I am now armed with the knowledge I need to shop for a tester. When I find one, I will most definitely share with you good people. Wish me luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 I want to correct a previous post. Tubeworld does use a plate curve tester _and_ a digital tube tester. Here is an example EL37 page: http://tubeworldexpress.com/collections/power-tubes/products/el37-mullard-rebranded-haltron-nos-1960-s I looked up the the testers they use, and one caught my eye. The MaxiMatcher. http://www.maximatcher.com/maximatcher.html. It sells for $675. Not bad! The curve tester they use is a SOFIA from Autiomatica. They are good testers http://www.jacmusic.com/Tube-testers/Sofia/Sofia-Index.htm, but you can't buy them any more. In short, the people who take tube selling seriously use operational voltages and test both ways. In looking at the tubes that sell on Ebay, most people who sell them use a 539C or a military grade tester. They sell like hotcakes. The buyers must be crazy to pay $150 for a tube that only has a pass rating on a 539C. I would much rather buy the same tube from tubeworld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Hey all you tube-heads. I need to tap into your thermionic emissions. I need your biased opinion. I am going to take the plunge and purchase a tube tester. I am definitely going Hickok, but am a bit torn as to which is best for me. The models I am considering, in lowest to highest price order are: least expensive ($300 or so) Hickok 600 & 600a Hickok 800, 800a & 800k Hickok 6000, 6000a Hickok 533a Hickok 539a, b or c most expensive (into the thousands of $'s) I will be using the tester on my 4 tube tuners and 2 tube amps for now. I also have a bunch of tubes, including a pair of Mullard EL37's which still have very legible labeling, which I want to test. The tester will be a mainstay of my tube work, which is pretty basic right now, but growing weekly. I intend on making sure I buy a tester which has been calibrated or recently serviced. If I get something that hasn't been, I will be paying the extra money to have it sent off to a qualified Hickok technician. edit: I forgot that I also have a tube receiver. OMG, I have 7 peices of tube gear! I had none a year ago. Been there done that...... Bought a pristine 539c back in 2004. Like you, I thought I really needed to buy a tube tester since I had acquired so many tubes and a bunch of tube gear. A few years later on down the road, I realized I had spent money on something I really didn't need, and turned around and sold the unit. Sending a unit off to get calibrated is no big deal, and there is plenty of information on how to do that yourself. Forgot the odd ball tube type needed for calibrating the 539, but it's no big deal. But seriously, from having been down that path before, and taking into consideration your reason for acquiring a tube tester,..... I don't think (?) you need one. There are plenty of good, honest forum members here who can help you out with getting your tubes tested. If having these numbers makes you feel any better; worst case scenario, you may have to spend a few bucks on shipping and for their time (doubtful they'll charge you anything though), but in the end, it'll be far less expensive than buying a personal tube tester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 When I got started in tube equipment a few years ago and started buying different tubes, I,too, wanted a tube tester. I bought an older Hickock and went to work buying/testing/matching tubes. Here are a few things I found out: most of the people out there selling tubes that have been tested on their "calibrated" testers will not test the same on your tester, or anybody elses for that matter. 2. A good testing tube will not necessarily sound good. 3. If you get excited and start plugging in different tubes and forget to change the settings on your tester, you will fry your tube! I found out after countless hours of tube testing that a tube tester is good for comparing the sides of a dual triode tube, comparing one tube to another, checking the overall strength of a tube. It's fun for a while, but in the long run it uses up a lot of time. Maybe it's just me, but I have more fun listening to the music through the tubes than playing with them on a tester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 There is a document I just read which shows results of various testers based on a 12ax7 tube. It seemed that the 600a was the most consistent performer across the many 600a units tested, and accuracy to the lab tester results (RCA WT100A). I found it facsinating that the 539 didn't fair well at all. Not only were there large inconsistencies between the 10 Hicock 539's tested, the mean micromhos was way off from that of the RCA lab unit. This makes me question readings people advertise on ebay for used tubes. The 539C results are regularly quoted in those auctions, and based on this document, they are inflated! I would much rather hear what a 600 or 6000 has to say about a tube! Go read this article. See if you come to the same conclusion. http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Roe-Pruefer/Hickock-539B/testing.pdf edit: fjd, I was typing when you posted. This post was in no way a slam on the 539's. Go look at the document and tell me what you think. I own a couple of the RCA WT100A Lab grade testers, have used the Amplitrex AT1000 to test 1,000's of tubes (it''s great for testing VT4B&C tubes) and several other smaller tube testers. I would go for a calibrated Triplett 3444 if I had to choose just one tester. The Amplitrex AT1000 Achilles heal is that if you want to use with your PC 5 years from now it will require new software to be compatible with Windows 10. The RCA WT100A Lab grade testers are unsurpassed if you want to test lots of 1 tube type sequentially. The $2600+ cost of the Amplitrex tester is relatively cheap when you consider that an RCA WT100A price in today's money would cost almost $9,000 new. Wb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 There is a document I just read which shows results of various testers based on a 12ax7 tube. It seemed that the 600a was the most consistent performer across the many 600a units tested, and accuracy to the lab tester results (RCA WT100A). I found it facsinating that the 539 didn't fair well at all. Not only were there large inconsistencies between the 10 Hicock 539's tested, the mean micromhos was way off from that of the RCA lab unit. This makes me question readings people advertise on ebay for used tubes. The 539C results are regularly quoted in those auctions, and based on this document, they are inflated! I would much rather hear what a 600 or 6000 has to say about a tube! Go read this article. See if you come to the same conclusion. http://www.jogis-roehrenbude.de/Roehren-Geschichtliches/Roe-Pruefer/Hickock-539B/testing.pdf edit: fjd, I was typing when you posted. This post was in no way a slam on the 539's. Go look at the document and tell me what you think. I own a couple of the RCA WT100A Lab grade testers, have used the Amplitrex AT1000 to test 1,000's of tubes (it''s great for testing VT4B&C tubes) and several other smaller tube testers. I would go for a calibrated Triplett 3444 if I had to choose just one tester. The Amplitrex AT1000 Achilles heal is that if you want to use with your PC 5 years from now it will require new software to be compatible with Windows 10. The RCA WT100A Lab grade testers are unsurpassed if you want to test lots of 1 tube type sequentially. The $2600+ cost of the Amplitrex tester is relatively cheap when you consider that an RCA WT100A price in today's money would cost almost $9,000 new. Wb Good information. I'm not too concerned about computer operating systems. I have so many computers laying around, I can always dedicate one for tubes only. As for the Triplett 3444, that is a very nice tester, but a bit hard to come by. I will keep my eyes peeled. There is only 1 on fleabay, and the bidding is hot even though it has 2 days left. What would you want for one of your RCA's? I had to ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfbane Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 "What would you want for one of your RCA's? I had to ask... :)" My original purpose for buying it (gift for an old friend) didn't happen. It is however not for sale. Wb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickds1 Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) The uTracer kits are approximately $275 plus shipping from Netherlands. You would still need to source a case, power supply, sockets and wires, etc. It comes with the pcb, components, and microcontroller. Looks pretty cool! In looking at the blogs, and the build photos, I know it is over my head. Go check out some of the build pictures: http://www.dos4ever.com/uTracer3/uTracer3_pag9.html As for me, I will defer to those who are actually competent to take on such a daunting challenge. It comes with software which can be downloaded. I think it's a usb interface... I have had one of these for over a year (by the way, I'm Nick de Smith - mentioned in a post above as the re-writer of Daniel Schoo's Hickok 539B/C manual as I have one and needed it to work in Europe ). The uTracer is not a difficult build - through-hole components mainly - took a day to build the main board - the kit & documentation are excellent - only uses top quality components, e.g. turned-pin sockets. It comes with an RS232 serial interface - personally, I didn't like that as if there was a catastrophic error with the uTracer, it might take the connected laptop/PC South with it ! Therefore, I replaced the RS232 serial interface with a Bluetooth one for about USD 15 (generic boards available on eBay) - very simple and provides complete galvanic isolation. There are two Windows interfaces for the uTracer - one official one from Ronald himself, and the other from a talented professional programmer who also happens to like valves - these are discussed on the Yahoo! uTracer forum. Ronald Dekker is a full professor at TU/e (the technical university of Eindhoven in Holland) and also a senior research fellow at Philips - consequently, the research and quality of his work, which he fully documents on the uTracer site and his homepage at http://www.dos4ever.com (an excellent site) is nothing other than first rate. Importantly, he also provides top class customer support - e.g. he discovered some significant variation in batches of switching FETs he had supplied, so he sent everyone who had bought a kit a set of new FETs free (including free postage - most are overseas as well) just in case they had a problem... There is a V4 of the uTracer in the pipeline, but probably a year or more away - it'll feature a better heater supply, higher anode voltages and +ve grid voltages amongst many other changes. That's not to say the V3 is not a fabulous bit of kit - I and many others use it extensively - many of the items being addressed directly in the V4 version have work-arounds available in the current V3 implementation. Just love it! Photos below show original board under test, board using a cheap USB serial port adapter that doesn't provide galvanic isolation, and lastly a pin-header replacing the MAX232C TTL to RS232 converter with a cheap eBay JY-MCU V2 Bluetooth serial board (with attached 3.3V-5V level shifter) for full galvanic isolation and working just fine ... Edited May 16, 2014 by nickds1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted May 16, 2014 Author Share Posted May 16, 2014 Welcome to the forum! It's an honor to have a person of your abilities stop by to give this information and advice. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a tube tester purchase. I recently discovered that an old friend has a high level of technical knowledge on tubes, and has all of the equipment to boot. I am going to mention this thread to him. That is a very clever way of isolating your notebook from the dangerous currents. I have seen those bluetooth things at Mouser, and always wondered what a good use would be. Isolation.... Perfect Keep coming back... Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Here is some nice reading Before you invest in any "Tester", take notes, could save lots of money. http://www.tubewizard.com/recommended_Hickok_testers.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 And this is my Resident expert on all things "Testers", if repair of your unit is not on his list, he will tell you what you need to know anyway, Dam nice guy to work with, this is what he does for a living. http://www.alltubetesters.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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