Mallette Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 Arghhh.... CR4 is delivering 21.6v, so that's fine. "Output" was undefined, but I assumed it meant the pre out on the back. I cannot tell if it's open or closed. Meter reads "OL" on and leads apart, 0000 leads together. Easy. Pre out reads 0000, then random mohms and kohms, an occasional OL whether it's on or off. I'd assumed I be checking across pins of the relay to determine this and it would be unequivocally open or closed. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Dave, Arghhh.... CR4 is delivering 21.6v, so that's fine. "Output" was undefined, but I assumed it meant the pre out on the back. Correct,sorry for any ambiguity here. I cannot tell if it's open or closed. Hold on. Meter reads "OL" on and leads apart, 0000 leads together. Easy. Good we now know how your meter displays "opens" and "shorts". Pre out reads 0000, then random mohms and kohms, an occasional OL whether it's on or off. With the power off it reads 0, correct? Then with power on it cycles through mohms and kohms, an occasional OL ? OR with power on it cycles through mohms and kohms, an occasional OL and 0000 ? I'd assumed I be checking across pins of the relay to determine this and it would be unequivocally open or closed. I thought you could not get directly to the relay. If you can then you can certainly check right at the relay. You can also then check the connections/wires to and from the relay. Dave Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thanks Eric. No problem getting to the relay...more room than I feared. What I was trying to say was that at the pre out I was reading precisely the same random pattern power on or off. I'll check the relay directly across it's pins shortly... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 "CR4 is delivering 21.6v," So the relay is bad and needs replacing. Order the Omron part, glue it to the board with Goop,Silicone, or VHB tape, and run wires from the pins down to the correct pads on the board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Up and running! Still wasn't quite sure what I was reading, but just took it in and it's passing signal beautifully. Perhaps the deoxit I sprayed liberally in the seams did the trick. I'll cycle it a few times over the next few days to see if the "fix" holds. Thanks for all your help! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Up and running! Still wasn't quite sure what I was reading, but just took it in and it's passing signal beautifully. Perhaps the deoxit I sprayed liberally in the seams did the trick. I'll cycle it a few times over the next few days to see if the "fix" holds. Thanks for all your help! Dave Took it in? So if i understand the "fix" you took the board with the relay out, cleaned some contacts, put it back in and all is well. Cool. I hate wires and connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 Well, even between the relay contacts I was reading stuff I really couldn't interpret, but there did appear to be a difference between power on and off. So, just decided to give it a shot. I've a "plain jane" needle meter I need to dig up to see if it's a bit less ambiguous to the amateur than the digital meter I was using. Now, I've got to open the Soundcraftsmen Sp4000 preamp in hopes the phono circuit is obvious. Can't find a schematic and is well with this preamp except phono stage, which is "motorboating." Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 'Motorboating' is bad capacitors. "Perhaps the deoxit I sprayed liberally in the seams did the trick. " Really? Explain how cleaning the contacts on a normally closed relay that shorts the signal to ground would allow it to pass signal, that's totally irrational. Spend $3 and replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 On the relay, no clue. It definitely wasn't working and now it is. My experience in the past is that things electronic rarely get better and usually get worse. Well, on the Soundcraftsman the issue will be whether the layout is clear enough to identify the phono circuit. I've been unable to locate a schematic on line. I understand that testing caps isn't for dummies so it may be an ID the circuit and just replace them all sort of deal. Anyway, glad to have the Citation up and working. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 DJK, Could it have been the contacts to the board that Dave removed, cleaned and reinstalled that were the problem all along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2014 Author Share Posted March 14, 2014 That's sort of what I was thinking. Deoxit does just that and is known to improve conductivity. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 (edited) "Could it have been the contacts to the board that Dave removed, cleaned and reinstalled that were the problem all along?" Sure, but more likely one channel, not both. This would have been better to have had on the bench and made a few checks. I've had to replace those reed relays once before, that's why I gave the suggestions I did. I used to be an authorized HK service center, and at one time the VP of Harmon visited us and told us we were the largest seller of certain Citation products in the entire world. Edited March 14, 2014 by djk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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