jazman Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 HDRbuilder, All the restoration and building makes me think it's time to add risers for my Heresys, but I think I would like the risers to be a bit taller than standard. Am I being unwise to think I can improve on the standard riser height and raise the sound more into the room? What would be several good alternative dimensions that will not destroy coupling of the bass with the floor and walls? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Jazman, Funny things Heresy's. I have found that risers add to their sound in certain rooms and detract in others. In my living room I tried a pair of stands with risers built in first and then tried them on our cupboards mounted much higher but flat and they sounded better in the latter configuration. From memory you can see in my profile how they are currently mounted - a very non-audiophile positioning but it works for some reason. It may be those darn solid floors again that cause this - I dont know - but I can tell you that the sound is markedly better in this configuration that with the risers and stands they are supposed to have. Just some food for thought. ------------------ My System: http://aca.gr/pop_maxg.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 16, 2002 Author Share Posted July 16, 2002 max, Thanks for the thoughts. Your solution is simple, easy and elegant. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 You can always put standard slant risers on them...but that entails drilling holes into their bottoms...OR you can build a short slant stand for them that has 3/4" tall lips around its perimeter that will hold them in position....kinda like little slant bases...but no drilling into the speaker cabinet is required for this route!! If you go with the little stands, then line them with something to keep from marring the finish on the speaker cabinets' bottom...hint, hint! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 HDRbuilder, Thanks. I don't why I was stuck in the mud on this. I had considering slant risers as a solution, but worried about adding screws to the base to stablize the speaker. The 3/4 lip should allow more height. Assuming I use 3/4 ply for the riser base, can I safely rout half of that around the top 3/4 inches to provide the shelf to hold the speaker and still have enough strength? I guess I should just build a prototype. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 I don't know that there is going to be decoupling. In any event I got to thinking that the Forte II and Quartets are not too much unlike a Heresy with a riser. I note the edge of passive radiator of the Quartet is 8.5 inches off the floor. The edge of the passive radiator of the Forte II is 10.5 inches off the floor. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 17, 2002 Author Share Posted July 17, 2002 William, Thanks. That's a great missing piece of reasoning. I definitely wanted to get the Heresys about a foot off the floor. I don't use a sub with them. I like the bass response as designed, and knowing that much depends on coupling the woofer with the floor, walls, or corners, I was not sure where the limit might be. I'm certainly going to feel at ease with at least 10 1/2" rise at the rear of the speaker and a slant design. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Well, I can appreciate the issues. You want to get the mid and tweeter up higher so that they're at ear level. But then the woofer is farther from a floor, wall or corner boundry. You get to wonder if this is gonna ruin the bass. The odd thing is that 1 foot is about 1/10 th of a wavelenght at 100 Hz. It shouldn't make too much of a difference there. A lot depends on the room. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Jazman.... Picture this in your mind: A slant riser that has a top mounted to it....this top is approximately 3/4" WIDER on EACH SIDE, FRONT, and the BACK of the Heresy bottom to allow you to mount a little 3/4" wide by 3/4" tall strip to the top edge of this piece around each side of its perimeter...this set of 4 strips are the "lips" that the bottom of the Heresy sits into, that "hold it onto" the base...allow about 1/32" clearance all around and line the inside of this "tray" with felt or something to protect the Heresy finish... This should angle the tweeter and mid-horn lenses upwards to where you want them to aim, without diminishing the ability of the speaker to continue to remain low to the floor and give good bass response. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 HDBR-I got the picture in my mind sorta, now how tall is the riser in the back and how tall in the front? Does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 17, 2002 Share Posted July 17, 2002 Edster... Do this....take the Heresys...put an object one-inch thick under the back edge of each of them...then put flat object under the front edge of each of them, raising the front...keep adding to the "stack" of these objects under the front edges(books work fine) until they are firing at the angle you want them to fire...then take a tape measure and measure from the floor to the bottom of the front edge...that tells you how high to make the front of the riser...now... make the front piece of the risers that high...make the back piece 1" high...and figure what angle the top edges of the side pieces have to be...and you have the riser base...CUSTOM MADE to the height and angle you want it to be for your listening position!! Simple, huh? ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 18, 2002 Author Share Posted July 18, 2002 HDR, Gil, Thanks. I think I've got the shelf design. HDR, run the following through your computer(brain). My initial plan was to make the base 10 1/2 inches tall at the front of the riser and about 1/8 inch wider than the Heresy on all the sides. After determining the best angle for firing the speaker upward, that determines the rear height of the riser. Next I was going to dado cut around the top of all the side, front and rear pieces another 1/4 inch into the 3/4 width of each piece and the lenght of the rout(dado cut) from the top edge would be 1 1/2 inch. That would allow me to attach(screw) a 3/4 x 3/4 inch piece of ply to the inside of each side, front and rear panel to allow the Heresey to sit inside the riser' supported by the screwed in supports instead of on top, on a shelf. Again, my thoughts centered on the tunnel vision view to use the open space inside the riser to assist coupling the bass to the floor. The shelf design seems much simpler and less problematic than my concept. Do you think I can pull off my initial plan? Am I nuts to go to this much trouble for a pair of Heresys? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 HDBR, I didn't do a good job wording my last question. I was really trying to get the answer back on track with what (I think) jazman was asking...how tall can the riser be without destroying the bass response? I think Gil hit the nail on the head but I was looking for your thoughts on max height also, not how to determine the angle of the stand. Thanks for your explanation though! BTW: I just picked up my 2nd pair of '77 Heresy's. My original pair that I've owned since '77 are Maple Lacquer (H-ML) and the ones I got today are Walnut Oil (H-WO). I was hoping these new ones were made by you but the stamp on these is JC. This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-18-2002 at 02:20 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 18, 2002 Share Posted July 18, 2002 Jazman... I think the shelf thing would be much easier...here is why: 1. If you have the Heresys up that high in the front and you only allow 1/8" as the support on the sides as a lip...then you aren't allowing enough for support to the sides...no matter what you have under them...remember...they have to be able to slip into your design and that entails allowing AT A MINIMUM an extra 1/32" all the way around for clearance and for some sort of padding so they don't get the finish scratched....ALSO... 2. The speaker cabinets will be sitting at an angle which means that a dado on those parts will not be the proper angle along the front and rear edges...ALSO... 3. Depending on how SEVERE the angle is for the speaker cabinets...they MAY need EXTRA support along the rear bottom edges to keep them stable...something to consider...in other words the rear "lip" may need to be taller to give more support to the rear of the speaker cabinet. All in all...the riser with a lipped shelf atop it is an easier solution...and as for the plys showing on the edges of the shelf portion...you can lap the "lips" over the sides of the shelf and edge band the top of the lips...or just use solid lumber material for the lips and that will solve that hassle. Just dado the bottom inside edges of the lip material so that it can lap over the sides of the shelf base covering the plys of the shelf...miter it at the corners...and glue and clamp it on...if you use good wood glue you won't need to use any fasteners...therefore no holes to putty. What many folks don't understand is that it is primarily the glue that holds things in woodworking together...fasteners are just re-inforcement...or used mainly to hold the glued pieces in position while the glue sets up!! I built some 36 foot long header wraps out of 3/4" oak plywood that appear to be solid beams ( had one helluva time ripping out the veneer end grain matches to butt the 8' sections together to hide the seams, too!!)...and there isn't a fastener in them...they will last longer than the rest of the carpentry in the house I put them in...they are just mitered and glued and clamped...and they are suspended by hangers that were 3"wide strips of 3/8" baltic birch which had a 30 degree miter on the top edge and were screwed to the sides of the headers...and fit into a wide dado on the back side of the wraps' side panels that had the same 30 degree cut into its dadoe's top edge so they just slipped onto the hangers...I then glued the bottoms of the wraps into the miters at the bottom edge of the sides of the header wrap pieces that I hung...used masking tape to pull the glued-up miter joints together...just like clamping them...they are never going anywhere...they will have to be ripped apart to remove them...I sure hope I never have to do it...they are solid as a rock!!! No fasteners...just hanging there!!...LOL! Anoither thing...the header wasn't plumb, straight, OR level...but those beams ARE!!! The home owner said..." those beams look like they GREW there!!!" And, to tell the truth...they DO!!! Personally...I wouldn't raise the Speakers that high...the whole point in slant risers is to get the speakers aiming where you want them without having to raise them up from the floor level very much. My heresys have done well on the floor with no risers or bases since I bought them in 1978. I like them on the floor...it seems that everything I have tried in raising them loses some of their bass performance. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-18-2002 at 06:02 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 18, 2002 Author Share Posted July 18, 2002 HDR, quote: My heresys have done well on the floor with no risers or bases since I bought them in 1978. I like them on the floor...it seems that everything I have tried in raising them loses some of their bass performance. OK, I think your statement above has been my feeling for some time. I probably needed to hear it from someone else for it to really kick in. That's why I was trying to create a design that would allow me to keep their bass response. They have always been used on a carpeted floor, in a generally small to medium size room. They are currently in my 14 yr old sons bedroom and really sound awesome with some 1 inch art erasers as risers under the front of the cabinets. Very low tech, but not every 14 yr old has a set of Heresys in his room. So-o-o, the bottom line is; If it ain't broke........don't fix it! I knew that. (Or should have.) Now that I won't be making a mess with saw dust in the garage, I guess I'll have to finally start cleaning it up. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Hey Jaz, you still mad at me? Gee, I think I ran Kelly off and I feel like crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 19, 2002 Author Share Posted July 19, 2002 deang, I'm not "mad" nor angry with you. It's established that we're far apart on the politics of guns, and I choose not to engage in additional fruitless discussions on non audio issues. As I stated, I will confine myself to the politics of "audio". Got any Heresys? With this thread I've learned something from HDRbuilder that will save me some time, money, and needless spinning of my wheels. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishken Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Hi dudes. Im reading here that Heresys need to be on the floor near a wall or a corner. Can someone tell me how far from the wall? thank you. ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 Ken, The distance from the wall varies within each listening environment...you just have to move them back and forth untiol they sound best to your ears. ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockbobmel Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I had my Forte IIs up on 7 inch stands. I am listening, then adding bass, but then the deep bass went over the top, so I put the speaks directly on the floor with some 1/4" blocks on the front for aming. BINGO! the low, mid bass came alive. Then I put the risers that came with the speakers on, and lost some of it, so back on the floors they go. Firing lengthwise, My room is 14 x 16 with a 7x7 alcove and slanted ceilings (3rd floor apt.), hardwood floors wit a big rug. The room is pretty neutral with furniture. I use a Velodyne ULD15, but really don't need it for music. They are about 9" from the wall, and about 18" from the corners. These speakers ROCK!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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