Suitable Replacement driver for the KLF-10?

[philly0116]

Can anyone suggest a replacement driver that may sound better than the factory driver?

[moray james]

Sure the KLF20 driver is a lot better.

[cradeldorf]

Maybe those all gold cone ones in the new floorstanders, But I bet they aren't cheap.

[vnzbd]

I am curious to what you are trying to acomplish with the driver replacement. I would certainly research the difference in the specs between the 10 and 20 drivers. The 20s crossover at 750 hz while the 10s crossover above 2 khz. Different cabinet size and ports may also impact the results.

Before I would do anything make sure that the cabinet backs are not loose as this is a common problem with the KLF series.

[philly0116]

I am curious to what you are trying to acomplish with the driver replacement. I would certainly research the difference in the specs between the 10 and 20 drivers. The 20s crossover at 750 hz while the 10s crossover above 2 khz. Different cabinet size and ports may also impact the results.

Before I would do anything make sure that the cabinet backs are not loose as this is a common problem with the KLF series.

I have a cabinet maker building new cabinets for my KLF 10's so they will be plenty sturdy. I just didnt know if there may be a selenium driver or something that would be smoother or better suit the KLF10 than what came with it. I would have to assume the KLF 20 horn would be different based on the fact thats a larger cabinet and a 3 way speaker not a 2 way.

[vnzbd]

Well it sounds like you have the cabinet part all sorted out. As far as the tweeter I as well as many on this forum have gone to the Bob Crites Ti tweeter diaphram. For me it seems to have increased detail with extended highs. For around $65 I would recommend giving them a try.

I have 3 sets of the 10s. One set stock(loose backs too be repaired), one set with the BC cap refresh and the third set internally braced, higher end caps, BC ti diaphrams and a large guage air coil inductor on the woofer. The latter set being by far the best. I would attribute it mostly to the bracing and ti diaphram.

The horn on the 10 does not kick in near as low as the mid does on the 20 and then it also extends to cover all of the highs. Certainly different animals.

Good luck on the build!

[moray james]

If you are making new cabinets have them made larger so that the centre of the horn is at your ear level when seated (around 39 inches). The added volume will help out with bass you can simply re tune the vent by ear by adjusting the length. The KLF10 horn is fitted with a small tweeter (k79) driver and that is the reason for the limited bass response. The KLF20 mid horn and the KLF10 horn are almost identical with the KLF20 horn designed for a larger wide range drive and so it can play lower. The KLF20 mid horn is by the way a wide range horn and is used as tweeter horn in some pro Klipsch so if fitted with a wide range drive would make a fine two way only bettered by the CF3/4 horn which is physically larger and so can play lower.

Looking forward to seeing your new speakers. Best regards Moray James.

[PrestonTom]

With all due respect, the OP is getting several pieces of bad advice.

Unless you know what you are doing, leave them as they are. If you are dis-satisfied with how they sound, then it might be time to move up the food chain. There have been anumber of used KLF 30's for sale, for instance

[vnzbd]

PT, with all due respect, I 100% agree with your words of wisdom......

It does appear the OP is already making modifications by having new cabinets built. It is my guess that he has already listened to them in stock form and for some reason got the upgrade/modification bug as he has inquired about alternate drivers.

Stock or modified, I hope for his favorable results!

[PrestonTom]

PT, with all due respect, I 100% agree with your words of wisdom......

It does appear the OP is already making modifications by having new cabinets built. It is my guess that he has already listened to them in stock form and for some reason got the upgrade/modification bug as he has inquired about alternate drivers.

Stock or modified, I hope for his favorable results!

Unfortunately, the cabinet size and port geometry need to be matched to the woofer's T/S parameters. This is a fundamental design issue and should not be done via an opinion poll. Quite possibly the crossovers also might need to be re-done, especially if the "new and improved" woofer differs in efficiency and bandwidth.

Unless the OP has some background in this area (and some measurement equipment), an existing engineered solution is probably a better option. I am not optimistic at this point.

Edited May 28, 2014 by PrestonTom

[vnzbd]

Makes perfect sense to me.

[philly0116]

Thanks for the responses. I bought these speakers from a man in Mayflower, Arkansas. The cabinets were beat up pretty good, beyond repair, in the recent tornadoes there. The components all survived somehow. I had new cabinets built out of 3/4" birch, as you can see in the photos. They have triangle braces in each corner, a brace in the middle, one in the top and one in the bottom. The cabinets were built to the same dimensions as the factory ones. I was just curious as I am putting these back together if there may have been another driver, as in the horn driver, that may have been better than the current factory one. I know selenium makes a good horn driver, just didn't know if they sounded any better than the current factory horn and driver, that's all. I was not clear that I meant the horn driver, not the woofers.

Edited May 29, 2014 by philly0116

[cradeldorf]

I would give them a week or two on the floor playing and then decide if you think they need anything changed. I could tell you where I'm at with my 30's but that would just get you thinking and for right now I think you need to check out what you have before thinking about changes.

Pretty cabinets by the way.

Edited May 29, 2014 by cradeldorf

[vnzbd]

The cabinets do look good. With the common KLF loose panel issue you are probably ahead of the game. What finish are you going to put on them?

Interesting to have the KLF 30s mentioned. Although in the same series of speaker I would say it has a totally different sonic signiture. The 20/30s have a much stronger midrange presence which with the dedicated mid makes sense. The 10s are however do offer good mids but side by side might appear on the thin side. I do prefer the 10s balance myself and feel that they are more solid in the bass/midbass department. I would say that I am in the minority on the 10 preference over the 20/30s but the 10s will not be accused of being harsh.

Good luck with your project!

[moray james]

Unfortunately, the cabinet size and port geometry need to be matched to the woofer's T/S parameters. This is a fundamental design issue and should not be done via an opinion poll. Quite possibly the crossovers also might need to be re-done, especially if the "new and improved" woofer differs in efficiency and bandwidth. Unless the OP has some background in this area (and some measurement equipment), an existing engineered solution is probably a better option. I am not optimistic at this point.

Tom: my suggestion to the OP was to increase the volume of the cabinet a little and to raise up the position of the horn so it centres on the seated ear level so about 7 inch taller cabinet tops. The basic footprint of the cabinet is 12"x16" external dimensions and with 3/4" wall thickness and if you factor in a height increase of seven inches you can without trying very hard figure just over a half of a cubic foot of increased internal volume. Please Tom this is not the end of the world nor is it difficult to re tune the vent to this and you do you need measurement equipment to do this kind of job, At a guess you are looking at lowering the 3db down point perhaps 3 - 4 Hz tops. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill. The OP only needs to do some very simple experiments with simple test tones and then play with extending the vent length to lower the tuning frequency likely in the 2 - 3 inch range.

Lets say he wants to tune lower to 29 Hz which is as low as I would suggest all he needs to do is play a 29 Hz. tone and while doing so insert a longer vent tube (a roll of paper) while making note of the woofer motion. Increase the length of the tube until the woofer motion is at a minimum while playing the 29 Hz. test tone and you are done. This is a very simple process and it does not need an engineering degree or any complex equipment. I am very optimistic that very many of the members on this forum could easily do this type of retuning to existing loudspeakers or to slightly larger cabinet volume projects as most Klipsch cabinets are on the small side for the drivers used for obvious economic reasons. This can just as easily be done with passive radiators by adding dead weight, there you do need to keep the new tuning frequency to within around the 3 - 4 Hz. range as the passive units used only have so much suspension range. Weights can be as easily added or subtracted just as vents are lengthened or shortened. Things can always be put back to factory normal if the experimenter has a change of heart. I fail to see why you are always so pessimistic when it comes to such experiments. This is how you learn and there is no harm done and failures teach as much as the successes do sometimes more. Best regards Moray James.

Klipsch KLF10 Factory data

Frequency Response: 32Hz-20kHz(+-)3dB SENSITIVITY: 98dB @ 1watt/1meter POWER HANDLING: 150 watts maximum continuous (600 watts peak) NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms TWEETER: K-100-K 1" (2.54cm) Polymer diaphragm compression driver HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 90(o)x60(o) Tractrix® Horn WOOFER: Two K-1056-K 10" (25.4cm) Poly Carbon Graphite cones ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF) ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via rear-mounted port DIMENSIONS: 38.75" (98.43cm) x 12" (30.48cm) x 16" (40.64cm) WEIGHT: 65 lbs. (29.51kg) FINISHES: Light Oak, Medium Oak, Mahogany, Black Satin Built From: 1997 BUILT UNTIL: 2001

[longdrive03]

Philly, good to see that you got new cabinets built to same same as KLF10's.

It is possible to use another mid/tweeter driver on this horn. I think it will probably reproduce down to 800hz or so. You would have to totally redesign the crossover and buy a driver that will work from 800hz up to 17KHz. Those aint cheap but can be found. Maybe Faital, EV, or Selenium would work. Someone on the forum could help with xover design. You can start with the 116392 klipsch xover which uses a 1.5mh coil and 8uf cap on the woofer section with a reported xover of 2300HZ.

I would suggest you add more bracing to this build since the 10's aren't known for excessive bracing. I would add bracing to the inside of the motor board between the woofers and between top woofer and horn. I would also add front to back bracing if possible. I can't tell if the back is removable but it would be a lot easier to do if it is. I would use 3/4" hardwood x 2.25" wide and countersink screws to make sure they don't penetrate front of cabinet. I'm redoing some Cornwalls now and just finished adding bracing everywhere I could. You won't regret it.