Mobile Homeless( others) ....thank you

[Kris K]

Mobile and others thanks for your thoughts on tubed preamps.Mobile you were suggesting Cary to me and I was looking at a few models, but then I started to read up on AES.Wow same company at a fraction of the cost. Great reviews also. Deang were you not loving your SF Line1 until you bought the AES- 3?

I found a used AES-3 factory assembled standard version for sale at a very good price.I contacted AES and Billy Wright told me that I should upgrade to oil caps ($118) and would be amazed at what this would do.Even at the extra cost Im still spending less than a new factory assembled unit. Does this upgrade in the caps have a great difference in sound? Also the preamp is coming with the standard Chinese tubes that to my understanding are not all that great(microphonic?). What tubes would be a good match with this preamp?

I havent recieved the AES-3 yet ,but Im hoping that I bought champagne on a beer budget.

Thanks, Kris

[Guy Landau]

Hi Kris,

Which type of tubes are in the AES-3?I might have some recommendations.

[Deang]

The AE-3 is a tremendous bargain. It walks all over the Line 1.

As I'm typing this I'm trying to scrape together money to buy another.

I think everyone would agree with me that the oil caps make an already good bargain even better.

[mobile homeless]

From what I understand, it depends on the oil caps they are using and at $118, I wonder what it's going to be.

Make sure at the very least they are the Jensen Copper Foil oil caps which are a big step up from the caps that commonly add to the AE-3. I have heard from a few others that the latest Audio Note Silver Foil Oil caps are even better and with only two or so going in, might REALLY be worth asking for. I do know Cary does carry Jensen.

Also, remember that Deang is using the AE-3 DJH Signature model, which IS a different preamp, to a certain extent, than the stock AE-3 your are getting. This preamp has upgraded parts as well as tube rectification. The stock AE-3 is a good preamp but I think falling short from the SLP-94/98 in other ways, not just price. Both the other preamps have an external power supply and better regulation. Also, the tubes that do come with the AE-3 can be improved upon dramatically. Are you sure they are Chinese 6SN7? If so, you can expect MAJOR improvements. Ditto with the Sovtek 6SN7 which is a horrible tube.

Good sounding 6SN7 include Sylvania WGT from the 60s as well as RCA/CBS 5692. Others like the Brimar/Mullard 6SN7. I find the Sylvania 6SN7 to be a great compromise between bloom and detail. The 5692 tends to be more lush but might work very well with thy solid state power house.

Regardless, the AE-3 is probably not going to be as sweet an offering as other options such as the various Cary units. AT least it does use the 6SN7 which I find to be a very good match with solid state.

Chris Robinson is supposed to send me down an AE-3 to listen to sometime. I will be getting others in for pics and would like to compare.

Again, for the Caps question, go with the Jensen Copper Oils or, even better (and a bet more ducats) the Audio Note Silver Foil caps. You might ask what they can do with that solid state rectification by adding a HEXFRED.

kh

EDIT: Well, I had forgotten just HOW MUCH more expensive the Silver Foil Audio Note Oils were.... They are INSANELY expensive so scratch them from your list. The Jensen Copper Foils are reasonable.

Also, the shunt volume mod wouldnt be too hard for them. Those JAN 6SN7 should NOT have cost that much if they are the ones with the black base and are Philips based (made in the 80s probably)

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-30-2002 at 03:46 PM

[dbflash]

Kris,

I also like my AES AE3. You should see about the shunt Volume control mod.

I am using RCA 6SN7GTB tubes. If I had it to do all over again I wouldn't order the preamp with tubes. The Jan 6SN7WGT were an extra $150. I think you can get tubes at a better price.

Danny

[Deang]

I personally spoke with Dennis Had about the shunt volume control mod and he said it was "Kirk's thing". When I asked what he thought about it, he said, "I don't like it."

He told me that any perceived increase in bass is due to "the midrange being pushed down."

I sensed I had hit a sore spot with him.

[mobile homeless]

There is a bit of competition between ole Kirk and Dennis as Dennis is obviously the main designer but Kirk ends up doing a lot of mods and stuff to the units. Kirk is the best solder person there BY FAR.

I have to add that I didnt hear the original Cary Audio 300se SET Monoblocks hit their stride until hooked up to Kirk's bank of power filter caps. With these in place (they latter became a product), the 300B SET Carys were insanely good. Some of the most musical amplifiers I have ever heard to this day.

Although I dont really know Kirk personally I will say he is a good person to talk and probably has more hands on experience with the Cary gear then anyone. He has been there since just about the beginning.

kh

[dbflash]

I agree with Mobile. Kirk knows these preamps.

I did the whole upgrade (hexfed diodes,audio1 coupling caps,shunt vol control,kimber rca connectors,sheilded power cord and Jan tubes). The price went from $600 to $1100.

Have you looked at the WLA12A Line Amplifier ($800.00) from Wright Sound?

Danny

[Kris K]

I bought the AES AE3 for $400,and thought that would be a good intro into the world of tube gear. If the reveiws are on the money I will keep this for quite some time and if it isnt what I want in a preamp I can sell it and hardly take a hit at all.

Mobile I would not disagree with you that a Cary would be the better choice, considering the chain of finacial events that have just occured, Im limited on my purchasing, and when I ran across this I figured I could swing this small expence. Heck this preamp is the lowest amount that I have spent to date on any piece of equipment in my current system.

Mobile I did take your advice to stay away from the 6922's .

Yes, the owner told me that it comes with the original stock Chinese tubes.

The caps that AES had priced out are Audio 1 oil caps 2.00uF @ 600VDC .........per AES web site

This message has been edited by Kris K on 07-30-2002 at 04:59 PM

[dbflash]

Kris,

I think you are going to enjoy the pre. I used it for a couple of months driving a SS amp. It was a great upgrade. I now use it with my Wright"s WPA3.5.

Let us know how you like it. It will sound good out of the box and once the tubes have some hours on them it will sound so smooth.

I hope the tube trip works for you.

Danny

[mobile homeless]

See if you can get a price on the Jensen caps, as they really are better than these (they know this but might not tell you). You could actually BUY these caps yourself and have them sent to you. Then send the whole mess to AES if you dont feel like messing with it. The Jensens from everyone I talk to are more extended and the better choice. IT is what I have.

kh

edit: 2.0??? DAddy. Lordy. Those are a bit hard to find

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-30-2002 at 05:18 PM

[Kris K]

I think I might have a problem here. Earlier when everyone was gone, I decided to play a cd....Dave Matthews Live in Chicago and when the song titled #41 started(love this track)I reached over and "pumped up the volume".I had the Dave and his band right here in my family room.WOW

But I remembered talking to Mobile about tube microphonics and my concern with my KLF30's only being a few inches away from the stereo cabinet that houses my equipment.Mobile I placed my hand on the different pieces inside the cabinet as you suggested and sure enough there was vibration plus some.Granted this was at high volume and I dont listen to concert levels all the time, but what happens to the sound when the preamp becomes part of the soundstage? Should this have been a factored in or would I have been wise to look SS.

MY wife and family room limit me(no chioce)as to where I can place my fun stuff. Oh please help me, tell me that I did do the right thing going tubes. I havent recieved the AES yet and Im starting to think twice.AAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Kris

[lynnm]

Perhaps I have a tin ear but my tube amp sits between my 30's and within a foot of my right speaker and as a former electronics tech I think I can detect microphonics when they are present in any appreciable degree - I can honestly say that I have never heard any evidence of microphonics from my amp. I may be an old fart by some standards but I often have those puppies wailing. The other night a neighbour about a block away sat in his back yard with some buds and an electric guitar playing riffs in time with a couple of Leonard Cohen CD's I played.

In general I don't worry o'er much about microphonics. Serious microphonics primarily result from defective tubes. If however you are really concerned here are a couple of effective counter-measures against lower level microphonic effects that you might wish to consider:

Direct mechanical vibration through contact with vibrating surfaces will introduce more potential for microphonically induced distortion than will any disturbance of the air around a tube. Generally speaking one can provide a fair degree of isolation between the preamp and a vibrating shelf rather cheaply,(or horrendously expensively), but measures as simple as placing a rubber pad between the preamp and the shelf can be very effective.

It is possible to buy tube coolers that help prolong tube life,reduce microphonics and look well err ummm cool. I like the PEARL ,(Peterson Electro-Acoustic Research Labs) coolers which while not cheap are a small investment as compared to the price of decent tube toys.

[Deang]

Kris- you need to up your medication and relax

The AE-3 has nice big gummy rubber feet. Heck, I've got my stuff sitting on the floor right now less than 2 feet from the RF7's.

Microphonics be damned!

[mobile homeless]

With most quality SN7 tubes, it shouldnt be a huge problem. Try it out with some good tubes. Of course, you CD player vibrating like that is a bit problematic as well... But dont go off the deep end - I dont expect microphonic disaster in this regard (btw, I am not always a big fan of the "squishy feet" approach. My Cary worked much better on cones with more clarity and detail in imaging. Some preamps work better on different devices/feet. I dont like my amps, preamps, or EICO on NAVCOM pucks either; but the soft feet would be a help in some situations - I prefer cones on the whole).

At the very least, you could invest in a better rack, which really does make a difference, sometimes coming close to a piece of gear upgrade depending on the quality of the rack (you can make one as well). Bookshelves and stock "entertainment centers" are notoriously bad places for gear. Considering how much you have invested in your system, I think it wise to give thought on a quality stand.

Also, how are you speakers coupled to the floor? I know NOTHING (literally) about those model Klipsch. Are they spiked?

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-31-2002 at 08:13 AM

[edster00]

I just received a AE-1 to use while I am waiting for my *new* preamp to be built. It arrived damaged (input selector switch) so I haven't been able to listen to it yet.

As for vibrations with your CD player, I would highly recommend doing some kind of vibration/isolation tweaking. There are some quite inexpensive DIY methods that you can find discussed at: Tweaker's Asylum

This message has been edited by edster00 on 07-31-2002 at 07:37 AM

[mobile homeless]

Ed, have you moved to the active over passive approach as it appears? I know you have the Welborne Labs as well.

kh

[Kris K]

The audio cabinet was purchased about 6 years ago at a local hi end audio store. I want to say it cost $350. I believe its manufactured by Elite. Its your typical wood cabinet with glass doors, which I needed back then to keep "little fingers" away from the equipment. Plus it looks good in the family room which is paneled.

The left channels KLF30 is within 3inches from the cabinet and until now I never thought of checking vibration. I was concerned about feedback into the tubes from the speakers.Mobile suggested that I might want to feel the equipment and see if there is indeed vibration on the equipment. I took his advise and found there are vibrations(at high volume),are these something that I should worry about I really didnt know. I never had a problem with the cd player thats housed in the cabinet, so maybe I need not worry about the AES.

Here is a cute story on "little fingers". Back in 1985 I was working about 15 hours a day, so that my wife could stay home with our child. He was 3 years old then. I came home about 10pm and seen that the RCA record of the month just arrived. I went to the fridge for a beer, powered up the equipment, sat down and........nothing not a sound. Had power to preamp and amp, TT was spinning but nothing. Something is not right here.....checked all the connections, dials, fuses, you name it. Its 11:30 and Johny Carson is on and I have my system torn down and starting from scratch. In comes my wife,"What are you doing? Dont you know that you have to get up in a few hours?" I explained my problem to her and she said "I seen Tony looking at the buttons on the TT earlier". Two hours and a quart of sweat later ........ The turtable was a Bang+ Olufsen TX and its arm had linear tracking, so when I opened up the cover and exposed the tone arm I was missing my MMC2 cartridge (not cheap back in '84). My little darling pulled it out and threw it behind the couch. It took the next day to find it, full of dust bunnies. What comes around goes around.

Mobile yes the KLF's are spiked.

Thanks, Kris