wldrns1 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I had emails going to both BobC & CraigO. I couldn't get a handle on a annoying sound that was almost always present in my speakers since new in '82. Being willing to wade into finer audio, I'm now using refurbed Scott 299 , recapped my HSM's and bought a new NAD 546 cd player. Still 'that' sound. Even tried to EQ it away but I was impacting things I wanted to hear. I asked each expert to offer troubleshooting tips to isolate what I was hearing. After doing what they suggested, I still couldn't exactly pin it down. No real pattern. Weird! I have read and been advised of the 'forward' nature of Klipsch speakers. I didn't think this forwardness had anything to do with it. That's what drew me to them years ago. I describing in as much detail as I could to Bob. I could only say when listening there seemed to be an immediate, non-lasting, resonant quality which was quite annoying. He related a story to me about some speakers he looked at & initially couldn't figure out either. One was worse than the other. Of course, he got to the bottom of it and suggested my problem may be much the same. He told me what to look at. He was right! After checking mounting screw tightness, I then removed my squawkers to find each was mounted directly to the inside of the enclosure. No gasket. He said he found the remedy on his worse speaker was to install some foam weather stripping on the horn flange and remount tightly. I did that. That sound was gone. Unbelievable. He said some speakers were built with gaskets, some were not. I also found one mounting hole stripped. I replace that original #8 screw with a same length #10. If you're curious about yours, tap on the squawker horn with a small hard object. If there is a non-ringing but distinct/hollow/resonant metallic sound, you might want to take a look inside. After Bob's fix, tapping on mine produces a dull, almost dead sound. So much smoother & nicer to listen to. Many, many thanks to Bob! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Nice fix! Thank you and Bob for passing that one along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 5, 2014 Moderators Share Posted November 5, 2014 Good deal, Bob has a ton of experience and always willing to help and has a bunch of replacement parts which are not always easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Nice fix! Thank you and Bob for passing that one along. Is that similar to what you found and made the video of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Is that similar to what you found and made the video of? Along similar lines, for sure. It's certainly related to the same assembly and subsequently degraded sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Well this is great since I was beginning to think you had a screw loose 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) Well this is great since I was beginning to think you had a screw loose Glad you saw this...just one screw loose as you see. This resolution was a surprise for sure. As you and Bob suggested, I was testing for what I originally said was an excessive brightness which seemed to be more one speaker than the other. Didn't know how to see if it's amp, speakers or what. Decided the resonance bugged me more and wasn't consistent with all the swapping I did so went after that instead. Done! It's about time! Brightness is still there but is equal/problem was partly due to placement. However... I'm going to need time to get a better handle on the rest of this brightness thing. Like many people my age (59) I wear hearing aides. They are high end. Not a lost cause, just enjoying having some help. Other like it too! Anyway, I'm straight sloped from -10db @ 200cps down to -60db @ 8k. Substantial but no problem for the aides. I expect and can deal with some minor anomalies from them. I do wonder if I'm hearing the same character and volume of high frequency sounds hence the 'excessive' brightness. I can live with a little less than perfect with what I hear if that's the case using aides but what are others hearing? My 22 year old niece agreed to help me with this. I'll just do a simple 'not enough/too much/about right/scratchy sounding?' etc with amp treble controls. She's a good judge of basic sound. Before we do this, I'll have my audiologist add 3 modes that decrease the -60db @ 8k compensation in 2db increments each mode. I'll simply toggle modes until we are as close as possible to what each hears. That will be as good as it gets/ok. Aides can have 16 modes so no big deal. I have 2 modes now. My niece can hear the mode-switching confirmation tone in a quiet room from 10' away. I'll never hear exactly like I used to but I'll tell you, plenty good and natural enough. Couldn't be happier. I see you've been wondering...so that's the rest of the story. Edited December 13, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 What's the sampling rate of the hearing aides? There is simply nothing governing the quality of these pricey little gems.....ie. Have they ever fitted a custom pair for someone with "good"ears to see if they can stand it? So what if they can correct to a target freq curve? There's a lot more to it than that. Not to mention the patient's eardrum has a front-row seat to the amp inside each one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 (edited) What's the sampling rate of the hearing aides? There is simply nothing governing the quality of these pricey little gems.....ie. Have they ever fitted a custom pair for someone with "good"ears to see if they can stand it? So what if they can correct to a target freq curve? There's a lot more to it than that. Not to mention the patient's eardrum has a front-row seat to the amp inside each one. Sampling Rate? No idea. Aides: Phonak Audeo Q-70. One in each ear (my choice) & symmetrical loss. Care to research? FYI: Low end aides tend to sit in the drawer unused. I went for upper but not best quality and glad I did. Side note:these aides have soft rubber perforated domes that fit in the ear canal. Uncorrected frequencies simply pass thru so I'm sure I hear a natural/digital blend. I don't know if someone with good ears could stand it...ie, there would be no correction and as a result, I'd have say there would be no effect. With MY correction, of course they couldn't stand it. My objective is to get a close approximation to what others with non-deficient hearing hear. If my niece says 'about right/NOT scratchy' and I hear 'about right/scratchy', that will be as good as it gets and accomplishes this mission. I can easily live with that. I will say, never considered the impact of these devices on the sound aspects of tube power vs digital. I do hear a difference but thinking of your statement, not as much as unassisted hearing. Good point. I'm not aware of any alternative besides turning the music off...not doing that. Turning music up without aides isn't the answer either. One's deficiency is still present and attempts to compensate can be extremely annoying for others. I cannot be the only person with this issue! Understand I am not complaining, just exploring a small improvement mostly for the benefit of others, since I tend to be the 'DJ'. I would be interested to know what others doing. This has nothing to do with trying to 'fix' my sound system. With regards to being able to hear the everyday spectrum of sounds regardless of source or the fact of being digitally produced, I couldn't be happier. If you're aware of a better approach, please say so. My ears are open. Rock on. (Sorry Admin, looks like this may be getting Off Topic ) Edited November 6, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Morbius Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Just imagine someone so into tube amps that he attaches a mini tube amp to his hearing aid to get that warm, tubey sound! Probably would look like a dork….lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 Just imagine someone so into tube amps that he attaches a mini tube amp to his hearing aid to get that warm, tubey sound! Probably would look like a dork….lol. Or maybe there's a DAC for that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivervalleymgb Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I tried digital TOTL hearing aides about four years ago. Only 6 bands of equalization. I never did get used to the sound. Too dang digital sounding to me. No one makes analog adjustable hearing aides anymore, so I took them back. They were $6500 for the pair. The one thing I did like was the bluetooth. Made talking on the cell phone much easier. I have constant tinnitus in each ear but at different frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 (edited) I tried digital TOTL hearing aides about four years ago. Only 6 bands of equalization. I never did get used to the sound. Too dang digital sounding to me. No one makes analog adjustable hearing aides anymore, so I took them back. They were $6500 for the pair. The one thing I did like was the bluetooth. Made talking on the cell phone much easier. I have constant tinnitus in each ear but at different frequencies. Mine were 5400.00 for 2. When I was tested they asked what I expected, my only REQUIREMENT was no/zero ambient noise. There is none. The digital sound, well, better than saying what? huh?, you know. I was more irritated with the hearing loss than the digital nature of the sound. It is what it is. I glad these are as nice as they are. The sound bothers me once in a great while but it goes with the territory. For my (common) high end loss, these aides don't make loud thing louder, just give more up to the high end. Mine are Bluetooth but don't use that feature. If needed, I put the phone on speaker. The first time I took a leak, it was WOW! LISTEN TO THAT! Faucet running/Frying/Same thing. Took a while to identify some things I haven't heard in a while. Not a salesman here. Have to say, someone that needs glasses and doesn't have them knows their vision limits. Many simply won't keep trying. They forget about it. Not the same with hearing. Huh? What? Speak up! Turn it up! & on & on. I found the whole thing getting quite stressful...more so for me but bugged everyone else too. For me, would do it again in a heartbeat. Edited December 13, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thanks for sharing the tip. From now on, when I am going over speakers, that is one thing I will be sure to check for. I have always used the speaker gasket adhesive foam when restoring LaScalas, KPT's, KP's, and Heresy's. It works well. I never considered that I might have LaScalas that have no gasket. I very well may! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 Thanks for sharing the tip. From now on, when I am going over speakers, that is one thing I will be sure to check for. I have always used the speaker gasket adhesive foam when restoring LaScalas, KPT's, KP's, and Heresy's. It works well. I never considered that I might have LaScalas that have no gasket. I very well may! What a great fix that was. Still thrilled. Many thanks to Bob. What is this speaker gasket adhesive foam you mention? Not that it's needed, but next time I have them open, well, love to tinker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I keep both widths in stock: https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-gasketing-tape-1-8-x-3-8-x-50-ft-roll--260-540 https://www.parts-express.com/parts-express-speaker-gasketing-tape-1-8-x-1-2-x-50-ft-roll--260-542 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ama Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Widrns He said he found the remedy on his worse speaker was to install some foam weather stripping on the horn flange and remount tightly Mind telling me where is the horn flange? My squawker ringing too. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 (edited) Widrns He said he found the remedy on his worse speaker was to install some foam weather stripping on the horn flange and remount tightly Mind telling me where is the horn flange? My squawker ringing too. Thanks Sure. You have to remove the squawker. It's the part of the squawker horn that butts up to the cabinet (screws go thru the flange to fasten squawker to the cabinet). Foam goes between flange and cabinet on this 'butting' surface. For mine, well worth doing. Thin foam is nice and neat/does the job. Took away pretty much ALL of the annoying sound they made. Let me know how you make out. Good luck. See mustang guy's post a few replies above. I'm sure a premium product if that's what you're after. When I did mine, used thin adhesive backed weatherstripping foam...didn't know about mustang guy or would have done that. Nothing like the best! Edited December 13, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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