Q-Man Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Some of you discuss patents every now and then. Can anyone tell me how to go about obtaining one, or where to begin searching for the right information or help? No, it's not for a bass horn. I only wish that it was. Five years ago I had to make myself bedrails for my pick up truck. I went to all the truck shops and searched the catalogs, but couldn't find what I needed. I sold that truck about 6 months ago and the guy that bought it wanted to keep the rails. I've been driving my new truck too long now while again searching the custom truck shops for the kind of rails that I want. I gave up, and started making myself another pair today. While working on them I started thinking that I should patent these darn things. Any suggestions? Q. This message has been edited by Q-Man on 08-10-2002 at 09:46 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Q- First thing I would do is contact either the Florida State Bar Association or one in your locality. Ask them to give you a list of lawyers that specialize in Patent Law. That's right, get a lawyer. These places that advertise that if you sent them, say, $50 they will see if your idea has been done before. It almost always has. Then they got your money AND your idea to give to someone else. Or you can contact this site and do a search in your area. It's Martindale-Hubble . After you get the patent then theres getting a company to make it for you or, even tougher, setting up your own business of manufacture (read- put everything you own on the line). Good luck! ------------------ Tom's Money Pit This message has been edited by tblasing on 08-10-2002 at 09:59 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted August 10, 2002 Share Posted August 10, 2002 Start here: http://www.uspto.gov/ Then, if you are serious, get a good patent attorney. IMHO unless you think you can make a lot of money from it, and are willing to spend a lot of money protecting your patent rights, its not worth it. Just what is so special about these rails? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 You should read "The Case Against Patents" by Don Lancaster. If, after reading this, you still have the urge to get a patent, lay down until the urge passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted August 11, 2002 Author Share Posted August 11, 2002 Thanks for the quick replys and useful information. I'll start doing some research now and see if I get scared off. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 Q I agree with the above, unless you plan to market your idea and make some money, it may not be worth protecting your idea. And if you are going to pursue, get a pattent attorney. Let them do and document the research for you. Pattents do not cost that much. Can be had for $350, but most likely will cost $1000 - $1500 to be properly researched. One thing you can do that is cheap is mail yourself your designs, then place it in a safety deposit box unopened. You can produce this in court in case you ever want to prove the time you had the idea with the postmark. FYI - One thing that scares the crap out of me is the insurance required if you manufacture anything and sell it to the public. I had a friend who had a great idea for a trailer. After he learned what the insurance would be for him to manufacture the product, he sold the idea to a trailer manufacturer. Hope it all works out for you. Best of luck... JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 i have an email about this... a great guy, a klipsch lover recommended him to me .... Hi Justin: I just received your e-mail message requesting information on how to go about patenting an invention. First of all, I would like to preface my remarks with the statement that the pricing information that I am providing to you applies to simple mechanical inventions such as, for example, a lock, a toothbrush, or a mailbox. If you have a more complex mechanical invention, such as, for example, a lawnmower motor or a system for sensing and responding to water vapor, or a chemical, electrical, or computer-based invention, then the cost to proceed increases. Have you disclosed the invention to anyone not under a duty of confidentiality to you? Someone under a duty of confidentiality would be someone who has signed a confidentiality agreement with you or your company or someone close to you such as a spouse. If you have, then you have one year in which to file a U.S. patent application, or you will be forever barred from filing an application on that invention. In foreign countries, there is no one-year grace period, so it is very important to file an application before disclosing your invention publicly. If you have not disclosed the invention to anyone more than a year ago, then the next step is to send a description of your invention, including any drawings or photographs that you may have, to a patent attorney. That patent attorney should review your information and then perform a patent search. A patent search is used to determine whether or not your invention has been patented before, and if it has not, whether highly similar inventions have been patented that could be combined to produce your invention. Our price to do a search for a simple mechanical-type invention is $1200. That price includes our time and any out-of-pocket costs we may have for running the search, but may not include small items such as postage or fax charges. If the results of the patent search are favorable, which results we would provide to you in the form of an opinion letter, then we will recommend that a patent application be filed for your invention. The prices for patent applications depend upon your budget and your timetable, because you can choose to file a regular utility application or a provisional application. A provisional application for a simple mechanical invention costs $2500 plus the government filing fee, which is currently $80 for an individual and $160 for a company with more than 500 employees. Again, small ancillary costs may not be included in this price if the application takes a significant amount of hours to prepare. This application holds your place in line at the patent office and preserves your rights for foreign countries, but nothing else happens. A patent will not issue from a provisional application because it is not examined by the patent office. A provisional application is particularly useful for someone who needs more time to save up the money for a utility application and/or wants to try to find a buyer or licensee for the invention before investing more money in the process. Once a provisional patent application is filed, you have up to one year in which to file a regular utility application on the invention. Some people do not want to delay examination of their invention or issuance of a patent if the patent office finds that your invention is patentable. Therefore these people file a regular utility application first. A regular utility application involves significantly more work and thought than a provisional, and the cost goes up commensurate with this additional workload. Our price to file a utility application on a simple mechanical invention is between $5000 and $7000, not including the government filing fee of $370 for a small entity (individual or small company) or $740 for a large entity (over 500 employees). This price has a range to allow for differences in the amount of prior art (patents, magazine articles, etc.) that was found during the search for your invention and in the amount of work required to describe and draw your invention as required by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office's standards. You should understand that the process of obtaining a patent basically involves submitting an application to the Patent Office, waiting for a response from an examiner who reviews your invention, and responding to that examiner with arguments in favor of granting you a patent on your invention. This process of arguing with the Patent Office can go on for some time, and the process of convincing the Patent Office to grant you a patent is called "prosecution." The cost for prosecution is not included in the prices listed above for filing applications. Instead, we charge by the hour to prosecute a patent and bill you for the hours incurred by us on your file. You will always have the option to do more of the work for responses yourself if you want, which will reduce the amount of time that we spend on a file. This process of billing for prosecution hourly is more fair than charging a fixed fee, because many applications require very little time to prosecute after they are filed. Others, however, take quite a bit of time, and you should be aware of that possibility. If you would like to see a list of the government's fees for filing various patent papers and obtaining an issued patent, I would be happy to send you one. Also, if you have any other questions or would like to begin the patent process, please do not hesitate to contact me. I'd be happy to help you any way I can. Regarding the patent infringement you mentioned, the first step would be for you to let me know who the "huge company" is without giving me any other details about the matter. That way I can check to make sure our firm does not already represent the company, such that it would be a conflict of interest for me to represent you and/or the patent owner. If there is no conflict, then we would want to compare the patent claims to the product "huge company" has come out with to make sure that there is indeed patent infringement. If there is, we would send them a letter advising them of this. The patent owner would have the option of either making them stop selling the product and pay damages for past infringement, or work out a license deal where "huge company" pays a roylaty for selling the product covered by the patent. If things can't be worked out amicably, then we could file a lawsuit. Patent infringement lawsuits are VERY expensive, so trying to negotiate a license is usually the best course of action for individuals who own patents. All of the above work would be done at our hourlyu rates. My rate is $230/hour, but I would have one of my associates do the bulk of the work at $150/hour to keep the cost down. All of the above is hard to estimate how much time would be required, but the initial evaluation of infringement and sending the threat letter would likely be in the $3,000 to $4,000 range. Please let me know if you would like to proceed futher with either of these matters. Very truly yours, T.J. Cole Patent Attorney T.J. Cole Woodard, Emhardt, Naughton, Moriarty & McNett 111 Monument Circle, Suite 3700 Indianapolis, Indiana 46204 Phone: (317) 634-3456 Fax: (317) 637-7561 mailto:tjcole@uspatent.com ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 Ouch, serious $$$. My uncle patented a differential for an ATV, cost like $15,000 and he has yet to sell it, though Polaris (or one of those) is expressing interent in it. It ain't cheap, but talk about a chance to make some $$$. Good luck! ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! For JBL related subjects and more fun, click: http://www.audioheritage.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted August 11, 2002 Share Posted August 11, 2002 my neighbor invented an oil rig that only needed 3 legs, patented it. then some american company broke patent laws and made it themselves... he sued. lets just say that my old neighbor will never have to work again, or his children ------------------ -justin SoundWise promediatech@Klipsch.com /1-888-554-5665 - RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted August 12, 2002 Share Posted August 12, 2002 Hi All Ive met several very succesfull pattent holders. I use to work in a short run prototype shop, so I have signed many non disclosure statements. One day I ran into the guy who invented the pop top lid for Soda and beer cans. He made a royalty of .01 cents per can manufactured (100 cans = 1 penny). At the time (early '80's) he was making $30,000 per week. Wonder what he is making today 20 years later!!!! I grew up 2 doors down from the guy who invented and pattented the nylon coating on bowling pins. Years ago at one of my old flying club fly ins, I met the man who invented MTS sterio. Made a royalty of every sterio TV, VCR etc sold. Heard he owns his own island somewhere off the Florida Keys. Got an idea - Go with it...... JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted August 12, 2002 Author Share Posted August 12, 2002 You guys arn't trying to scare me, are you? Thanks again, I need to find the time to do the research now. First I have to finish the rails. I need them for this weekend. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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