McMiRA Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 So I've googled this until I wore the letters off the keyboard. I seem to have an audyssey issue that's the opposite of the rest of the free world. My dialog is crystal clear. However music content and some action content seem to be muted. I notice this the most on our living room setup when my daughter watches cartoons. Every time they start singing the volume drops a lot. I've reran audyssey a few times. Turned dynamic eq and volume on and off changed speaker size and crossover, lfe settings , and still can't get it to go away. Even move coffee tables re aimed speakers etc. I would say the culprit was no headroom on a low powered receiver but it happens at low volume also. (-40db) Receiver is a marantz 1604 (50x7) and the center is a kv3 with ksf 10.5 fronts and 8.5 rears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Could the source (cable channel or whatever) be doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 It does this on all content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted May 18, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 18, 2015 I believe Chris A. uses this program extensively and may be able to help you with this. I will see if I can find a thread to link for you, and this one to him so he might be able to drop in. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 When I say all content I mean all sources being decoded into multi channel surround sound. The receiver switches from audyessy flat to pure direct when I use a 2 ch source for music only. This room rarely gets played on 2ch since my dedicated 2ch rig is in the same room. The music content I'm having an issue with is when they sing a song or play music during the multi channel content. My daughter loves the Disney cartoons and they are full of music and singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 (edited) ... The music content I'm having an issue with is when they sing a song or play music during the multi channel content. My daughter loves the Disney cartoons and they are full of music and singing. Could there be some glitch, causing Dynamic Volume to be on without you knowing it? Some AVRs and pre/pros (including my Marantz) have an Audyssey indicator light on the AVR itself, rather than on the monitor screen, that will include the words "Dynamic Volume" if it has switched itself back on for some reason. Audyssey may sometimes sound softer because any bass bumps due to room acoustics are cut out. If you switch Audyssey off, does the music sound louder? Are these cartoons on Blu-ray, streamed, or what? Hopefully, the Disney people aren't using dynamic range compression, or just plain turning the songs down during remastering, based on false assumptions about what listeners want. Others seem to be doing that. Parenthetically, it would be ironic if these (probably new) cartoons have had their dynamic range compressed, since the old 1940 optical soundtracks for Fantasia, at a time when 50 dB dynamic range was rare, were designed for 75 dB dynamic range above ~~ 30 dB room noise in the theaters, bringing the peaks to 105 dB, as well as being a very early use of multi-channel. See Scientific American, Peck, January 1941. If your daughter likes older "classic" Disney cartoons that are in multi-channel, I hope she has seen the ~~ 25 minute "Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom" (the story of music) in which a harpsichord over on the extreme left of the CinemaScope screen evolves into a screen filling grand piano, with the sound expanding with it, as well as other Disney cartoons in multi-channel, including Fantasia (1940), Lady and the Tramp (1955), and Sleeping Beauty (1959). She probably already has Mary Poppins? A multi-channel live-action Disney film for the older child, or music lovers of any age, without a word of dialog or narration (thank goodness), is Grand Canyon (1959), a ~~ 30 minute fusion of Ferde Grofe's Grand Canyon Suite and footage of the canyon. Musical documentaries have evolved since, but this early example is still good, for the most part. One critic called it "a thrilling evocation of fire splendor and tenderness." I hope your audio problem gets fixed before you run these. Edited May 19, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 The majority of the content is just off directv. Newer cartoons like Doc mcstuffins, jake and the never land pirates, Sophia the first, Mickey Mouse clubhouse. She's only 20 months old but loves these shows. Doc mcstuffins is when I noticed it and it immediately annoyed me. Started messing with all the settings and playing episodes off the dvr also then checked it out on Netflix. Looked through settings on both sources and nothing is indicating they are the issue. This room has always been a headache, short listening distance with glass on the back wall and hard floors. This is the first time I've come across this issue though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What listening mode are you using? For instance, my Onk 717 with Audyssey gives me Music and Theater modes. In Music mode the sound goes outwards to the L/R, and if in Theater mode the sound is very clear for dialog and goes to the center. I can also adjust the sound to Narrow or Wide in terms of where the L/R is located relative to the main LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 I run it on auto on the video inputs. On the majority of channels it stays on Dolby Digital and only tends to switch on some commercials. Anytime it makes any adjustments it will display it on the unit. You can watch it do its thing and change offsets, modes, etc. I thought maybe it was that so I watched it during the mentioned music scenes and it doesn't change anything. Nothing turns off, changes, light up, or shuts off. I don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) I run it on auto on the video inputs. On the majority of channels it stays on Dolby Digital and only tends to switch on some commercials. Anytime it makes any adjustments it will display it on the unit. You can watch it do its thing and change offsets, modes, etc. Hmmm, that doesn't sound right, and least compared to the way mine works. I use Neo6 which translates 2 channel input into 5.1 and it does a good job all around. It will not auto change from that setting unless there is a DVD or Blu-ray which takes over the listening mode. I also have the Music and Theater Dimensional which makes a dramatic difference in what sound comes out of what speaker. I'll try to find your manual and see how what you have translates into what I have. Edit: (I don't think your unit has the Music and Theater Dimensional modes) +++ Edit: I just read the specs on your Marantz I agree with you, 50 watts into 5.1 is NOT a lot of power, which is what you said in Post #1. I wonder how Audyssey sets your speaker loudness? For instance, sometimes it will BOOST the center, or it may set the center flat and DECREASE power to the L/R, like -6 db or whatever. If you get a chance, can you get those numbers from the On-screen display menu and let us look at those settings? +++ I'd like you to try the Neo6 setting for a while and see how it sounds. On mine, I get music out of the L/R, almost always dialog goes to the center, and the sub kicks in but its subtle, not boomy. I would also like you to give us each L/C/R and S settings as Audyssey sets it. You might want to try turning the sub OFF and then let Audyssey set the speakers. Then turn the sub back on and use the last setting Audyssey suggested. I didn't like my settings as well when the sub was plugged in and Audyssey was in control, but I think overall Audyssey does a pretty good job. I've got some other specific suggestions, but lets start with the above. I think you will be successful at tuning the speakers to your liking. Edited May 19, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 She's only 20 months old but loves these shows. She would have to be older to see any of the Disney films I recommended in post # 6 -- except Toot Whistle Plunk and Boom. If you have Facebook, go to Audyssey and pose your problem to Chris K, the co-founder, researcher & CTO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Each input can be setup to run in different modes. I just have all the videos set to auto. I would say it was a headroom issue but it happens even at low volume. MultiEQ mode flat Dynamic EQ off Dynamic volume off CinemaEQ off Dynamic compression off LFE 0db Dialog level adjustment on +2db Front speaker large Center small Surround large Front left -8db Front right -9db Crossover Full Center -8db Crossover 80hz Sub +4db ( this room has issues with bass) Subwoofer mode lfe+main Crossover 120hz Surround left -5db Surround right -5db Crossover full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Everybody has personal preferences from here on out. Some settings I like I know others DON'T like and that's OK, I hope they put their input in as well. What matters is how YOUR speakers wound with YOUR equipment in YOUR living room. I suggest you make one change at a time, but these settings WILL make a huge difference to your listening experience. I experimented with mine for months. You might not be as patient. Each input can be setup to run in different modes. I just have all the videos set to auto. I would say it was a headroom issue but it happens even at low volume. MultiEQ mode flat What other settings do you have? I'm guessing Punch. Flat mode will not give you good dynamics. Dynamic EQ off I have mine turned ON. It sounds good at low volume, and turns itself down so its not saturated at high volume Dynamic volume off I have this turned to OFF. I think it reduces the dynamics which is better for movie watching, TV watching might be better with it ON (less LOUD and less SOFT.) CinemaEQ off I don't have this feature. Dynamic compression off I don't have this feature. LFE 0db I would not change this at this time Dialog level adjustment on +2db This might be why you are getting crystal clear dialog. I would not change that setting. (my personal preference) Front speaker large I have Front speakers with dual 12" woofers. I set it to "small" (I let the sub do the heavy listen at low octaves) Center small Suggest don't change Surround large Suggest change to small The next settings might be the most critical to your non-loud music concerns. Suggest you change L/R to -4 and if you like it, try -0. Adjust to your preference. Front left -8db Front right -9db Crossover Full I don't know what XO Full is Center -8db Crossover 80hz Suggest don't change these setting right now, they look good Sub +4db ( this room has issues with bass) The +4 is hot, but not overly so Subwoofer mode lfe+main This is why your Main is set to FULL. You are getting double-bass, meaning low bass from both the sub and the mains. This is personal preference. The double bass rounds out bass nulls in the room, but you may like/need it. Crossover 120hz This XO sounds high to me. I prefer XO at 80 for sub, but this is personal preference. Surrounds look OK for me, but I'm not sure what XO full means Surround left -5db Surround right -5db Crossover full I know this is a lot to think about. Suggest you start with running the L/R a little hotter and see if you like it. Edited May 19, 2015 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 The issue isn't a lack of punch or cross canceling. Its an immediate drop in volume only during the content and then back to normal when the content is over. Not just a small attenuation, but a giant leap. As if the volume went from -20 to -40 and then right back. Originally the fronts and rears were ran at 80hz with the sub at 120hz to ease the current draw at higher volume since it's such a small amp. Just letting the sub do work. This last time I reset audyssey I left the settings alone to see how much of a difference there was. It really didn't change anything. This room has never had good sub placement. Too many openings, not enough corners. The only good corner I have is on the back right and the rear is there because it's the only place for it. This room is our regular tv room. It's where I watch the news in the morning and where my daughter sometimes watches her cartoons when we aren't in the theater room. It just annoys me that I discovered the issue and don't know how to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Its an immediate drop in volume only during the content and then back to normal when the content is over. Not just a small attenuation, but a giant leap. As if the volume went from -20 to -40 and then right back. This is weird. I would be sure to ask Chris K. @ Audyssey. Maybe something is defective. It sounds almost like the Automatic Gain Controls that used to be on cassette records. If there was a sudden increase in source level, the AGC would knock it down, gracelessly, to below the immediately previous level, causing "pumping." There isn't something like that hiding in your AVR, is there? Edited May 19, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Not sure. I'll have to dig through the manual. I sent Chris a message on fb. See if he responds tomorrow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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