tubelion Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Dear Rune, whta kind of caps and transformer you chose? and Why? Thanks SZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Tubelion, I used Audio Note copper foil paper in oil caps,and the autoformer that is in the AK-3 x-over.I think it's called T4A. Regards, Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 And why Audio Note? Well,Audio Note products is the most natural sounding I have heard.I have an all Audio Note set-up,so neadless to say they go well with the rest of my set-up. I don't know if you've heard any Audio Note products,but if you have and liked it,I can assure you that you will like these caps... Regards, Rune Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Well Tubelion I can say that I tried a pair of ALK designed crossovers in my khorns and did not care for them. I am back to my slightly modded AA networks now. When I get the money, I plan on doing what Rune did, and implementing an A network with very high quality parts. The AN PIO caps are a definite part, since everyone whose opinion in audio I trust has tried them and likes them. It all depends upon whether you trust your hearing or not. If you want specifications to dictate sound, then perusing catalogs of parts will get you the best specs, and you can 'trust' it's as right as specs can make it. If you trust your hearing, which is what PWK did, then you listen and tune until you know what works best. PWK captured something akin to magic in his speakers where the sum is greater thean the parts and I believe that any changes in the design could produce unforseen consequences. Always be prepared to remove any changes you make in case the results are not pleasing. PWK made these speakers w/o computers or hi-tech equipment. Much like the old world violin makers, he listened and tuned, listened and tuned, until he was happy with what he had made. Rune, if you could email the A schematics I would appreciate it, I used to have them but a bad computer crash made me lose them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Did u try changing the squawker settings on your ALK's? I built ALK clones with Clarity caps and I think they sound wonderfull. I did have to change the squaker tap settings to 5 and 1 before I got the sound I wanted. They definetely sound much better then my older Type A crossovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 randy, Be fair now! Remember to mention that you were the very first guy to try building my network design. This was before the importance of using the high quality parts I called for was established. The parts you used where not quite what the doctor ordered! A lot of water has gone under the bridge since then! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Hi all, everyone has sound he likes, but that is fine tune. Parts is important, I don't doubt at all. Her we discuss about the design of the crosssover, the best to do is ALK against A with both built by best parts. I think cap -oil or not, coils are available and being experiemnted by you guys. But what about transformer, from my experience, it is an important part, why few one touch on this. I am thinking to own two best (parts and design)??? crossover, I just have to check the bank account, and have my ear cleaned by me ENT colleague to compare the two. Dear AL, can you answer some of my questions if not all of them, like what is type AB? M=ceremic magnet? It is just wonderful to hear from you guys, a lot of fun with different opinion Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 tubelion, The parts Randy used were mylar caps and fine solid wire inductors, if I remember correctly. Mylar caps are unquestionably higher loss than paper in oil caps! He also used the T2A transformer borrowed from his stock networks. I don't think that is a series downgrade though. Randy.. Am I right about the parts you used? It's been a long time ago now! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Hi AL, It is good to visit your web site, you prefer universal transformer, is it after a survey that it is the best or a bargain of cost? May I ask AB better than AB2, I am curious because you describe day and night, that must be big big difference. The other guys, hello, I would try Type A, but don't want to use the original transformer, seeing the grade other parts used, it can't be a good stuff, right? Klipsch must be too cautious in cost-effective issue. After suffering for too long, I do not have this constraint in mind, and would prefer writing a cheque. Thanks SZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 tubelion, Now that we have come to the price of parts, let's talk by email. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Al, the parts I used were not high-buck parts, but they were medium grade parts suitable to present a reasonable description of the benefits to be derived. If the results were close to good, or even of acceptable quality, I would have spent the money for the high buck items. But that was not the case. I thought the ALK design sounded terrible. There was no redeeming quality that would make me want to pursue improving them. I had audiophile friends turn up their noses at how terrible they sounded. I think if you want to 'be fair', you should acknowledge that you have a monetary interest in the continued sale of your crossovers and the parts you have sourced for them. Consequently your opinions are prejudiced. You are unable to say anything bad about your product at all. Nor are you receptive to any criticism of your product. I find your solicitation of business on this forum distasteful, and you should consider whether you are doing the visitors of this forum a service, or simply helping your own bank statement. If your crossover is such a smashing success with Klipsch speakers, I wonder why Klipsch hasn't bought out your design for a pretty penny. Since they haven't, I guess that is why you are still here humping your product day after day. Seems like Tubelion is going to be another 'satisfied' customer of yours, either through the high quality of your crossover or from the placebo effect, where anyone who has spent hundreds of dollars expects to hear a difference. Congratulations on opening up the lucrative Oriental market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Mr. Bey-- Al Klappenberger doesn't deserve your verbal abuse. It's a real shame the crossovers you made from Al's design didn't suit you, but it shouldn't be surprising. At least you admit you used cheap parts. Try it with the same high quality parts Al recommends so you can compare apples to apples. In the meantime, if you're searching for the real reason your crossovers don't sound good (although it sounds as if you're not), try looking in the mirror. Since your mind is firmly made up, I won't try to confuse you with facts. I would, however, like to remind the other forum readers that Al provides his designs and his time and advice FOR FREE to anyone who wants to build them. When is the last time anyone you know put money and lots of effort into designing something worthwhile and then immediately gave it away? (Would you do that, Randy?) The only time Al makes any money on crossovers is when people CHOOSE not to build their own and ask him to do it. Even then, considering the price of the parts, he can't be making very much. If you don't think Al is providing a service to the members of this forum, how about if we search this forum and I give you $10.00 for every one of Al's dissatisfied customers (other than people who deliberately use the wrong parts) and you give me $5.00 for every happy customer; we'll see who has all the money at the end of the day. On the other hand, considering that those who can, do, you might try designing a better crossover than Al's and corner the crossover market. Klipsch will pay you big bucks, right; isn't that what you said? Just don't forget to give away your design to anyone who wants it, and don't say anything about it on this or any other forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 It is termed the *Beraneck Effect* after my hero Leo Beraneck. You are correct Randy, the effect is directly proportional to the $$$ invested. I've not heard Al's network but given the junk level quality of the drivers used in Klipsch systems I find it odd that anyone would spend big bucks on the networks when the drivers are really what need changing. But the network is easy to swap so people usually go the easy route. This message has been edited by John Warren on 09-02-2002 at 04:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Randy, When you built my network design you cut every corner you could. Of course they didn't sound good! I even offered to check them out for free if you shiped them to me. You may even have had them wired incorrectly! You ignored the offer and ME for months afterward! If you check my BUSINESS web site (not my personal one on the little house below) you will see that filter design software is my main business. Klipsch crossover upgrades are a SIDELINE! Look at the price North creek music changes for thier upgrades for B&W speakers and compare it to my price (If you even know what it is)! Again, I am asking you to be fair. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 I'm with Hardhead on this one and feel like Randy may be a little harsh with his comments here. Al has always helped people whenever they have asked, and has never forced his product on anybody. Randy never used Al's networks so it's kind of hard for him to have an opinion on how they sound or not. He may have used Al's schematic (or whatever) but that's not the same thing. Granted, I just ordered some ALK's, but felt the comparison I did justified the purchase. There may be better alternatives out there (and cheaper) but I heard them first hand on my speakers, and it was night and day better than my existing AL's. I think you have to try and find someone in your area who has some, and then decide for yourself whether you like them or not... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 There could be many reasons why u didn't like your ALK clones. Tood bad because mine sound excellent as does my K-Horns will all music. I wouldn't way the ALK crossovers made a night and day differnce but I did get improved HF resolution and better bass. I would bet u have them wired worng. Let AL take a look. He offered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 quote: Originally posted by John Warren: It is termed the *Beraneck Effect* after my hero Leo Beraneck. You are correct Randy, the effect is directly proportional to the $$$ invested. That may be true John, but when you have 3 people in the room and all are in complete agreement about which one sounds better, it's kind of tough to argue with the results. quote: Originally posted by John Warren: I've not heard Al's network but given the junk level quality of the drivers used in Klipsch systems I find it odd that anyone would spend big bucks on the networks when the drivers are really what need changing. But the network is easy to swap so people usually go the easy route. I have heard the same thing here regarding the K-55 and K-77 drivers. What drivers would you recommend for replacement and would you continue to use the stock horns? Would these drivers mate up with Al's crossovers? Thanks, Mike This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 09-03-2002 at 07:19 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Yeah, that was a little on the harsh side Randy. Knowing Randy for the past three years, it is really unlike him to get worked up in this manner. Usually, he retains a great sense of humor here. I just think he had a bad experience with the ALK dealings early on. I think Al has tried to help and had offered his schematic and advice. I dont think he makes a ton of ducats on this venture. Since the plans are also for free, it is hard to be too critical. On the other hand, I have shared a few emails with AL and know that we share little common when judging audio. We have different tastes and he relies on measurements before anything else in judging sound quality, something that I have found, over the years, to be problematic. On the other hand, I have heard him say that he isnt even sure that his crossovers are a great improvement over some of the Klipsch offerings, this in an email to me. In other words, he doesnt always blankly endorse his own gear. Still, I believe the high quality oil cap approach to be a better sonic match, in my opinion, then the Solen/Harmony approach. Granted, I have not heard the ALKs yet. Perhaps, someday I will on someone else's system. Randy, you did go over the top a bit with ALK, even if you dont agree with his designs. I understand where you are coming from, however. kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 09-03-2002 at 09:04 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Hi all, Hope no one feel hurt and everyone enjoy good music and be happy. I feel so grateful to you guys'advice, I understand audiophiles have very diverce opinion and passion to his liked theory, same here in Hong Kong. I have learnt a lot, really. i hope I can have some contribution as well if I find something good Dear AL and randy, thanks so much. All the best Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted September 3, 2002 Author Share Posted September 3, 2002 Its been a few weeks with my ALK's, I found them to be an improvement over my AK networks. Like most of you, I have my music memorized, every sound, technical detail etc.. The most notable improvement is the more detailed midrange, while reducing the natural megaphone effect. It is subtile, for instance some of my friends notice, others dont... But that is to be expected. Since Al posts his designs on his web site including the material list, how can anybody state he is making crossovers for profit. Look at the posts, most are people building crossovers from his plans asking him for help. That is not advertising. Evan if Al could retrofit every set of Khorns and LS, I doubt it would give him a gold lined retirement. Also, if you remember, Al posted a thread a few months back stating his calculation were wrong for the inital settings... Again he is being most honest with us. Again - I am happy with my ALK's JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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