Not getting much sound from the tweeter on my Klipsch forte

[Loudogp250]

Hey all

I am getting very little sound from one of my tweeters on my Forte. Here is what I did to try to trouble shoot. The current diaphrams are Bobs Ti. I swiped it with a old diaphragm. Same issue. I then placed the entire housing into the other Forte. Still no change. The sound continued to be faint. Any idea what the issue could be? Does the entire tweeter need replacing?

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[derrickdj1]

If all the wires have good connection, then I'm leading toward a bad tweeter.

[mustang guy]

Can you send just a high frequency test tone to the speaker? Maybe the sound you are playing just doesn't have much high pitch.

[LarryC]

I suggest you contact Bob Crites's enterprise and ask for recommendations:

http://www.critesspeakers.com

 

And I suggest you touch base with Klipsch support and pose your questions there as well:

http://www.klipsch.com/contact

[Loudogp250]

Can you send just a high frequency test tone to the speaker? Maybe the sound you are playing just doesn't have much high pitch.

I have. I can hear the tone but its very low.

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[Loudogp250]

I suggest you contact Bob Crites's enterprise and ask for recommendations:

http://www.critesspeakers.com

And I suggest you touch base with Klipsch support and pose your questions there as well:

http://www.klipsch.com/contact

I will reach out to Bob. Thanks

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[mustang guy]

One last question before you call Bob. Have you measured this, or is this what you hear? Please don't be offended, but lots of folks have hearing loss at high frequencies and don't even realize it.

[Loudogp250]

No offense taken. This is what I am hearing. I disconnected the low and mid in both speaker. One was noticeably louder. Since I have.no way to take.measurements I switched the entire tweeters. The problem tweeter was still lower. Swiped out the.diaphragm. Same problem. I am scratching my head.

[mustang guy]

Could there be a bad connection in the network as Derrick implied? Would it be a big pain to try the tweeter out of the other speaker, and also try switching speaker wires from the left and right channels of the source to make sure there isn't some problem in it?

 

If you have a smartphone, download an SPL meter, FFT or RTA APP. I use Audiotools which costs money, but there are plenty that don't.

Edited March 7, 2016 by mustang guy

[Loudogp250]

Anyone know how to read a schematic? I have removed to Crossover and would like to build one from the parts that I currently have? 

 

This is what I had. Can someone please explain the attached Forte schematic? I am going to attached the components to a piece of wood and attached it to the inside of my speaker using velcro. I have searched the forum and can't find anything that I understand. I need a "this is how you build a forte crossover for dummies".  

 

 

 

 

[Loudogp250]

I really do not know how to explain it to you. For someone that knows how it is self explanatory. Try and take it in steps and not as a whole. First start with just the woofer. Break it down to simple parts. Woofer inductor and cap is all there is. Wire it just as shown. I assume you know what + and the- signs mean. There are the input. The inductor is in series from the + to the woofer. After the inductor there is a cap that goes between the + and - before the wires go to the woofer.

Then you have the autotransformer in the midrange driver. Coming from the + you have a capacitor in series with the number 5 connection of the autotransformer and the - goes straight to the 0 connection of the autotransformer. The number 2 connection of the autotransformer goes to the - of the mid driver and the + of the driver goes to 0.

Then there is the tweeter. Coming from the + of the input there are 2 capacitors in series before the tweeter +. Both 1.5 uf. Right after the first cap there is a .15 mh inductor that goes between the + and - and right after the second capacitor there is a resistor of 40 ohms between the + and - before the tweeter.

I can explain the function of each component but you do not need to understand why just to build the crossover. Take it in simple steps one section at at time check and double check each of the 3 sections before going to the next. The biggest schematic you have ever seen can be broken down to simple sections and be understandable.

Do not be afraid to ask questions. The best designer of Electronic circuits had to learn at some point in their life.

You are awesome. I will attempt to follow your directions and post afterwards. Thank you.

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[WMcD]

Perhaps this will help.

A picture (schematic) is worth a thousand words. (But we can only express that bromide in words and not in a picture. Here, we use both) WMcD

Edited March 13, 2016 by WMcD

[WMcD]

There is a glitch in that the first row of green text got lost in the process of using MS paint.

There should be text "The caps and inductors"

Plus the whole thing might need more explanation. Why three filters? Suffice to say we need one for each of the drivers. We want to tailor the spectrum of sound power getting to each.

Why so many components in each filter?

The single cap or single inductor plus the load on them form a simple filter which does not have "brick wall" characteristics. Rather, typically, the loss rolls off at 6 dB per octave (going up or down) and often this is not enough roll off. We want to kill the power off at a faster rate as we go outside the range where the driver "sounds".

So, we use the scheme of using one component to roll off or roll on conductance through the circuit so what we want can go though. We also use another component to short to ground what we don't want. This way we get a better roll off. I've used the non-engineering term "whammy." But I hope you get the implication.

This is stringing together is most apparent in the tweeter filter.

When the diaphragm in the tweeter moves at high frequencies (back and forth), that is the same idea as high acceleration.

And Newton said, Force = Mass time Acceleration. The Force comes from the magnet and the voice coil winding. But we must keep the weight of the voice coil (and diaphragm) low. Hence, we must use very thin wires in the voice coil winding to keep down Mass. In the equation, we see that if we want high acceleration we need low mass.

But dang, we're stuck with very thin wires which will not take much power before burning out. About 5 watts continuous power from a pure test sine wave.

Therefore we want a darn good filter which prevents any power at frequencies below its intended operating range from getting to the tweeter. Therefore, we use the triple whammy filter. This is a "third order" filter. Or -18 dB per octave.

Let's see. If we go down one octave (one halving from 6000 Hz) we get to 3000 Hz. Assuming there is music there, how much of its unwanted power is getting into the tweeter and could contribute to burning it out?

-3 dB is 1/2 power. -6 dB is 1/4 power. -9 dB is 1/8 power. -12 dB is 1/16 power. -15 dB is 1/32 power. -18 dB is 1/64th power. Gee. That is pretty good. We've just about eliminated any loud music an octave below from potentially frying our tweeter.

- - -

The "octave" thing might be a bit confusing. It is not quite electrical engineering as much as musical notes. Looking at a piano. "A4" is in the middle of the keyboard and this is 440 Hz. If we count up eight white keys aka "whole notes" (hence, "octave"), we get to the next up "A5" which is 880 Hz. And if we went down eight keys we'd get to the lower "A3" which is 220 Hz.

The bottom line is that when electrical engineers talk about octaves above or below the characteristic roll off point, they are really talking about eight whole notes (octave) which is the same as the freq doubling or halving. It is why when discussing the tweeter filter I was talking about going down "an octave" from 6000 Hz to 3000 Hz.

= = = = =

I don't know if I'm explaining too much. But think about it.

WMcD

Edited March 13, 2016 by WMcD

[Loudogp250]

There is a glitch in that the first row of green text got lost in the process of using MS paint.

There should be text "The caps and inductors"

Plus the whole thing might need more explanation. Why three filters? Suffice to say we need one for each of the drivers. We want to tailor the spectrum of sound power getting to each.

Why so many components in each filter?

The single cap or single inductor plus the load on them form a simple filter which does not have "brick wall" characteristics. Rather, typically, the loss rolls off at 6 dB per octave (going up or down) and often this is not enough roll off. We want to kill the power off at a faster rate as we go outside the range where the driver "sounds".

So, we use the scheme of using one component to roll off or roll on conductance through the circuit so what we want can go though. We also use another component to short to ground what we don't want. This way we get a better roll off. I've used the non-engineering term "whammy." But I hope you get the implication.

This is stringing together is most apparent in the tweeter filter.

When the diaphragm in the tweeter moves at high frequencies (back and forth), that is the same idea as high acceleration.

And Newton said, Force = Mass time Acceleration. The Force comes from the magnet and the voice coil winding. But we must keep the weight of the voice coil (and diaphragm) low. Hence, we must use very thin wires in the voice coil winding to keep down Mass. In the equation, we see that if we want high acceleration we need low mass.

But dang, we're stuck with very thin wires which will not take much power before burning out. About 5 watts continuous power from a pure test sine wave.

Therefore we want a darn good filter which prevents any power at frequencies below its intended operating range from getting to the tweeter. Therefore, we use the triple whammy filter. This is a "third order" filter. Or -18 dB per octave.

Let's see. If we go down one octave (one halving from 6000 Hz) we get to 3000 Hz. Assuming there is music there, how much of its unwanted power is getting into the tweeter and could contribute to burning it out?

-3 dB is 1/2 power. -6 dB is 1/4 power. -9 dB is 1/8 power. -12 dB is 1/16 power. -15 dB is 1/32 power. -18 dB is 1/64th power. Gee. That is pretty good. We've just about eliminated any loud music an octave below from potentially frying our tweeter.

- - -

The "octave" thing might be a bit confusing. It is not quite electrical engineering as much as musical notes. Looking at a piano. "A4" is in the middle of the keyboard and this is 440 Hz. If we count up eight white keys aka "whole notes" (hence, "octave"), we get to the next up "A5" which is 880 Hz. And if we went down eight keys we'd get to the lower "A3" which is 220 Hz.

The bottom line is that when electrical engineers talk about octaves above or below the characteristic roll off point, they are really talking about eight whole notes (octave) which is the same as the freq doubling or halving. It is why when discussing the tweeter filter I was talking about going down "an octave" from 6000 Hz to 3000 Hz.

= = = = =

I don't know if I'm explaining too much. But think about it.

WMcD

Explaining to much? No , you are not. The responses I have received are why this forum is so good. Thank you. [emoji2]

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[wvu80]

Anyone know how to read a schematic? I have removed to Crossover and would like to build one from the parts that I currently have?

 

I can't remember which of these Youtube vids is best, but there is a good one out there somewhere for people like me who don't understand squiggles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=schematics+tutorial

[Loudogp250]

I really do not know how to explain it to you. For someone that knows how it is self explanatory. Try and take it in steps and not as a whole. First start with just the woofer. Break it down to simple parts. Woofer inductor and cap is all there is. Wire it just as shown. I assume you know what + and the- signs mean. There are the input. The inductor is in series from the + to the woofer. After the inductor there is a cap that goes between the + and - before the wires go to the woofer. 

 

Then you have the autotransformer in the midrange driver. Coming from the + you have a capacitor in series with the number 5 connection of the autotransformer and the  - goes straight to the 0 connection of the autotransformer. The number 2 connection of the autotransformer goes to the - of the mid driver and the + of the driver goes to 0.

 

Then there is the tweeter. Coming from the + of the input there are 2 capacitors in series before the tweeter +. Both 1.5 uf. Right after the first cap there is a .15 mh inductor that goes between the + and - and right after the second capacitor there is a resistor of 40 ohms between the + and - before the tweeter.

 

I can explain the function of each component but you do not need to understand why just to build the crossover. Take it in simple steps one section at at time check and double check each of the 3 sections before going to the next. The biggest schematic you have ever seen can be broken down to simple sections and be understandable.

 

Do not be afraid to ask questions. The best designer of Electronic circuits had to learn at some point in their life. 

I followed your directions step by step. When I hooked up the crossover the woofer and mid range both produced sound as they should. The tweeter is silent. I attempted to follow your explanation so now I wonder if the resistor between the + & - is bad or if I hook the tweeter up wrong.

[mustang guy]

Shoot us a picture please...

Edited March 14, 2016 by mustang guy

[Karsoncookie]

Hey all

I am getting very little sound from one of my tweeters on my Forte. Here is what I did to try to trouble shoot. The current diaphrams are Bobs Ti. I swiped it with a old diaphragm. Same issue. I then placed the entire housing into the other Forte. Still no change. The sound continued to be faint. Any idea what the issue could be? Does the entire tweeter need replacing?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

  

Loudogp250 - Please clarify one thing in your original post - When you moved the quiet tweeter assembly to the other speaker enclosure, did that same tweeter continue to be quiet?

 

 

Lars 

[Loudogp250]

Hey all

I am getting very little sound from one of my tweeters on my Forte. Here is what I did to try to trouble shoot. The current diaphrams are Bobs Ti. I swiped it with a old diaphragm. Same issue. I then placed the entire housing into the other Forte. Still no change. The sound continued to be faint. Any idea what the issue could be? Does the entire tweeter need replacing?

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

Loudogp250 - Please clarify one thing in your original post - When you moved the quiet tweeter assembly to the other speaker enclosure, did that same tweeter continue to be quiet?

Lars

When I moved the quiet tweeter to the other speaker the tweeter worked as it should. It was perfectly fine.

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[Loudogp250]

Doesn't look the best