Phono Amp Recommendations

[jkull]

I have another recent thread regarding my recent purchase of a pair of 1980 horizontal cornwalls. I have a Line Magnetic 219ia on the way which should be arriving monday. Now what I need is to locate/select a good MM phono amp, as I was using the phono in my marantz 7701 which I will no longer be using in this setup.

 

So my chain will be:

 

Line Magnetic 219ia Integrated SET Amp (utilizing the preamp as well)

Cornwalls

Audioquest speaker from amp to speakers

VPI Classic 2 TT w/ Soundsmith Zephyr 2 High Output Moving Iron Cartridge (MM)

3FT Blue Jeans RCA's from TT to phono, and have a pair of audio quest meter length RCA's to run from the phono to the amp

 

So I am looking for recommendations. I suppose I am open to SS or valve, but I think Id like to try a valve phono.

I want a decent phono, but I do not need a diminishing gain, soaked in snake oil phono.  Id like to keep the budget under 1k.  

The DECWARE ZP3 tube phono looks nice. SET, no feedback, $1295 with 10% off right now. So its at the top of what id be looking

to spend... Looking at around an 8 week wait right now, which I could 'live' with.  However, 

there may be better options for the money and I could use this forums generous guidance and advice. Thank you!

 

[Schu]

great success with Parks Audio Budgie/SUT  (with nice Cinemag transformers) at some where well under $500...

 

I used with with great success with both a Upgraded Rega P5 Denon 103r and a VPI Classic II and Soundsmith Aida cart

[mkane]

  For a bit more than a C note you can build this and it's awesome. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/another-super-high-end-phono-stage-no-expense-spared.371889/page-16

[jkull]

20 minutes ago, mkane said:

  For a bit more than a C note you can build this and it's awesome. http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/another-super-high-end-phono-stage-no-expense-spared.371889/page-16

 Thank you for the recommendation.  I know it is good experience and fun to do, but I rather not diy at this time. I'm looking for plug and play my friend

[mkane]

  ^^^put 2 of these together, gifted 1. 

 

 

[mkane]

  Then I would consider one of these. Not cheap but room to build on.

 

[tromprof]

The Yaqin (Chinese) phono preamp is surprisingly very good, esp. if you upgrade the tubes. Back when I was a lot more into records I was willing to spend but never felt the need to upgrade my Yaqin once I put good tubes in it. Totally quiet, but no MC carts.

https://www.amazon.com/YAQIN-upgraded-version-12AX7B-Stereo/dp/B00HQW4NYO

[TubeHiFiNut]

The separate tube phono stages that I have direct experience with are:

 

Quicksilver Phono Stage Preamp

EAR 834P

Audio Research PH3

 

The Quicksilver is $1,595 new and you almost never see them on the used market. A truly excellent phono stage that can hold its own against more expensive competition. 

 

The EAR is available used for around $800 - $900 and is a classic. As with the Quicksilver, the EAR can play in much more expensive company.

 

Be aware that there are EAR 834P clones sold by Douk for ~$350 on the auction site that look almost identical to the real thing. Folks who have heard them state that the sound very close to the real thing. Whether this is, or is not, for you depends on how you feel about what is basically a direct copy of another designer's work. You can also buy DIY boards and build your own.

 

Not sure about current used prices for the ARC PH3? It sounded a bit forward for my tastes and my preference is for the Quicksilver and EAR.

 

Hope this helps and YMMV.....

 

[skypig]

No tubes, but I went through a stage of upgrading phono stages.

The Rega fono mini was incredible bang for buck. I stopped upgrading at a Heed Quasar.

[jkull]

17 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

The separate tube phono stages that I have direct experience with are:

 

Quicksilver Phono Stage Preamp

EAR 834P

Audio Research PH3

 

The Quicksilver is $1,595 new and you almost never see them on the used market. A truly excellent phono stage that can hold its own against more expensive competition. 

 

The EAR is available used for around $800 - $900 and is a classic. As with the Quicksilver, the EAR can play in much more expensive company.

 

Be aware that there are EAR 834P clones sold by Douk for ~$350 on the auction site that look almost identical to the real thing. Folks who have heard them state that the sound very close to the real thing. Whether this is, or is not, for you depends on how you feel about what is basically a direct copy of another designer's work. You can also buy DIY boards and build your own.

 

Not sure about current used prices for the ARC PH3? It sounded a bit forward for my tastes and my preference is for the Quicksilver and EAR.

 

Hope this helps and YMMV.....

The best EAR deal i see is $1450 right now.  $2500 new, so its a good deal.  Above where Id like to be of course.  Unless if I have no other option for all tube, and quality..

17 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

 

 

[jkull]

Comparatively, i see the DECWARE ZP3 as a better buy to the phonos listed above.  There are no SS components, is a true SET and transformer equipped design, and can do MM and MC if by any chance I ever opted for a MC cartridge.  $1295 new, could probably get the 10% off black friday deal still..  and they pop up used not to sparsely if watched.  It is also very visually appealing to me. It will be mated with a SET amp, so mine as well keep it SET if I can.  As of now, that is what I'm considering.

[TubeHiFiNut]

4 minutes ago, jkull said:

Comparatively, i see the DECWARE ZP3 as a better buy to the phonos listed above.  There are no SS components, is a true SET and transformer equipped design, and can do MM and MC if by any chance I ever opted for a MC cartridge.  $1295 new, could probably get the 10% off black friday deal still..  and they pop up used not to sparsely if watched.  It is also very visually appealing to me. It will be mated with a SET amp, so mine as well keep it SET if I can.  As of now, that is what I'm considering.

Don't have any experience with the Decware but do want to point out that both the EAR and Quicksilver are, by definition, SET designs.

 

Looking forward to your listening impressions of the Decware.

[jkull]

2 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

Don't have any experience with the Decware but do want to point out that both the EAR and Quicksilver are, by definition, SET designs.

 

Looking forward to your listening impressions of the Decware.

I checked them out online but did not dig too deep on that, thus did not realize this.  Thank you.  The decware can be had for about $400 less than the quicksilver.  I didn't see any used quicksilver phonos available when looking.  The $1450 asking price on the EAR may come down a bit however putting the price option right around the new decware cost...

[TubeHiFiNut]

Just now, jkull said:

I checked them out online but did not dig too deep on that, thus did not realize this.  Thank you.  The decware can be had for about $400 less than the quicksilver.  I didn't see any used quicksilver phonos available when looking.  The $1450 asking price on the EAR may come down a bit however putting the price option right around the new decware cost...

Understood.....and you rarely see any used Quicksilver Phono Stage Preams on the market. You might call Mike Sanders at Quicksilver and see if he has any trade ins available for sale.

 

I saw an EAR about a month ago for $850 (I think). Wasn't aware that they had popped back up in price. Be interesting to see if the seller gets that price.

 

I looked at the Decware on their website and it appears to be well built. Certainly a nice looking phono stage. The only way to know for sure is to buy one, get it hooked up in your system/room, optimize everthing and listen.

 

If you listen to more music, into the wee hours of the morning, then you have a winner.

 

If you find yourself listening to less music, time to try another phono stage. 

 

As always, YMMV.

 

[ATLAudio]

What's wrong with the phono preamp in your Marantz? 

 

NAD, and Pro-Ject make good ones for 100-200$

 

Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil I can think of. 

 

The science and engineering of taking the information off of your record and amplifying it is an incredibly simple and straight forward process. On one hand the analogue purist touts this simplicity as a benefit for using it as a source but then quickly develops amnesia when glazing over exotic priced audio woo. 

[TubeHiFiNut]

9 minutes ago, ATLAudio said:

What's wrong with the phono preamp in your Marantz? 

 

NAD, and Pro-Ject make good ones for 100-200$

 

Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil I can think of. 

 

The science and engineering of taking the information off of your record and amplifying it is an incredibly simple and straight forward process. On one hand the analogue purist touts this simplicity as a benefit for using it as a source but then quickly develops amnesia when glazing over exotic priced audio woo. 

@jkull - Needless to say, I disagree with the assertion stated by @ATLAudio that "Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil.....".

 

Please let your ears be your guide, listen to as many different components as you can in your own system/room and trust yourself to make the best decision for your audio preferences.

[ATLAudio]

22 minutes ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

@jkull - Needless to say, I disagree with the assertion stated by @ATLAudio that "Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil.....".

 

Please let your ears be your guide, listen to as many different components as you can in your own system/room and trust yourself to make the best decision for your audio preferences.

I'll let science be my guide which allows me to account for my own personal bias and rationalization. You can build your own phono stage with parts from a radio shack; the tolerances are beyond simple, so to say I need to blow a grand on one has me going for the BS pin behind the lapel. 

 

"Ears be your guide (and let your brain fall out)" is a marketing jingle which the exotic audio industry sings all the way to the bank. Doing this removes your inhibitions to question their BS, and their foot is now firmly in the door. Instead ask why I must spend an exhorbant price tag for their product and research that specific claim. I actually asked this and you didn't even bother to answer. Too busy singing their jingle I see. It's a catchy tune.

 

Extrodiany claims require extraordinary evidence. Without blind experiment suggesting to the contrary I'm more than comfortable dismissing exotic priced phono stages, and suggesting others do so, without hesitation.

[jkull]

1 hour ago, ATLAudio said:

What's wrong with the phono preamp in your Marantz? 

 

NAD, and Pro-Ject make good ones for 100-200$

 

Spending a grand on a phono preamp is the best example of snake oil I can think of. 

 

The science and engineering of taking the information off of your record and amplifying it is an incredibly simple and straight forward process. On one hand the analogue purist touts this simplicity as a benefit for using it as a source but then quickly develops amnesia when glazing over exotic priced audio woo. 

I had originally purchased the 7701 for HT and 2 channel use. Now that I am focused toward 2 channel, I figure I should remove a source like this as it has a ton of video components etc within, that I am not utilizing. I am planning to use the preamp of the 219 instead.  It's just a large AV component as the 7701 seems a bit unfitting in a 2 channel designated setup.

[TubeHiFiNut]

1 hour ago, ATLAudio said:

I'll let science be my guide which allows me to account for my own personal bias and rationalization. You can build your own phono stage with parts from a radio shack; the tolerances are beyond simple, so to say I need to blow a grand on one has me going for the BS pin behind the lapel. 

 

"Ears be your guide (and let your brain fall out)" is a marketing jingle which the exotic audio industry sings all the way to the bank. Doing this removes your inhibitions to question their BS, and their foot is now firmly in the door. Instead ask why I must spend an exhorbant price tag for their product and research that specific claim. I actually asked this and you didn't even bother to answer. Too busy singing their jingle I see. It's a catchy tune.

 

Extrodiany claims require extraordinary evidence. Without blind experiment suggesting to the contrary I'm more than comfortable dismissing exotic priced phono stages, and suggesting others do so, without hesitation.

Who is claiming anything? All I have done is urge @jkull to audition prospective phono stages in his system and trust his own ears. What a concept.....

 

Please allow me to clarify my positions so that they are perfectly clear:

 

1) I do not believe in ABX testing.

 

2) The only person who I have to satisfy with my system is me.

 

3) With all due respect, I do not need a crusader to tell me what I should and should not like.

 

4) I have kept my own counsel regarding my systems and have been enjoying myself immensely with audio for over 40 years.

 

5) I get it....you appear (from your signature) to agree with Peter Aczel where tubes are concerned. I do not. 

 

Now I would normally say that we will have to agree to disagree but that is usually not acceptable to ABX True Believers. To many of the True Believers that I have exchanged pleasantries with on the 'Net, it is usually ABX is the only way and everyone else is wrong.

 

Personally, as previously stated, I audition a new component in my system over time. If I listen to more music, it stays. If less, it goes.

 

Music, to me, is an emotional experience. The reproduction of music, how it touches the soul, can't be quantified with specs and measurements. You either feel it or you don't.

 

That is why I drive my La Scalas with 845 based SET monoblocks and play my records through tube phono and line stages. That's what works for me. If another path works for you, that is wonderful and I am happy for you.

 

I hope that @jkull auditons several different phono stages, both tube and solid state, trusts his own ears and keeps the one that best meets his needs.

[ATLAudio]

8 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

Who is claiming anything? All I have done is urge @jkull to audition prospective phono stages in his system and trust his own ears. What a concept.....

 

Please allow me to clarify my positions so that they are perfectly clear:

 

1) I do not believe in ABX testing.

 

2) The only person who I have to satisfy with my system is me.

 

3) With all due respect, I do not need a crusader to tell me what I should and should not like.

 

4) I have kept my own counsel regarding my systems and have been enjoying myself immensely with audio for over 40 years.

 

5) I get it....you appear (from your signature) to agree with Peter Aczel where tubes are concerned. I do not. 

 

Now I would normally say that we will have to agree to disagree but that is usually not acceptable to ABX True Believers. To many of the True Believers that I have exchanged pleasantries with on the 'Net, it is usually ABX is the only way and everyone else is wrong.

 

Personally, as previously stated, I audition a new component in my system over time. If I listen to more music, it stays. If less, it goes.

 

Music, to me, is an emotional experience. The reproduction of music, how it touches the soul, can't be quantified with specs and measurements. You either feel it or you don't.

 

That is why I drive my La Scalas with 845 based SET monoblocks and play my records through tube phono and line stages. That's what works for me. If another path works for you, that is wonderful and I am happy for you.

 

I hope that @jkull auditons several different phono stages, both tube and solid state, trusts his own ears and keeps the one that best meets his needs.

 

 

“Who is claiming anything?”

 

You responded back to ME that there is benefit in buying an exotic phono stage costing several hundreds or 1000s of dollars as long as he swaps out in home demos until he’s satisfied, and ignore the science, and doesn’t use his brain to ask the obvious questions.

 

“All I have done is urge @jkull to audition prospective phono stages in his system and trust his own ears. What a concept.

 

I’m urging science, blinded by personal bias and when given an extraordinary claim, that a relatively simple construct, a phono stage, need to cost several hundreds or thousands of dollars that it’s perfectly rational and logical to demand extraordinary evidence to support such a need

 

“Please allow me to clarify my positions so that they are perfectly clear:”

 

1)   “I do not believe in ABX testing.”

 

Wow… Do you believe science is some sort of liberal conspiracy? So you dismiss scientific study with proper controls, like for bias. You do approve of testing different products to your own admission, you said so. But what do you gain by peaking at the name plate badge of the equipment? Or knowing anything else about it? Moreover, who has the best benefit not to ask critical questions, you or the manufacturer?

 

2)   The only person who I have to satisfy with my system is me.

 

Calling BS here… When you respond to ME, with YOUR ideas and claims, then I will respond BACK. If you are so satisfied and convinced, why not move on?

 

3)   With all due respect, I do not need a crusader to tell me what I should and should not like.

 

See above

 

4)   I have kept my own counsel regarding my systems and have been enjoying myself immensely with audio for over 40 years.

 

OK? So you’ve gone 40 years without asking any critical questions to justify your exotic gear purchases? This is a feather in your cap?

 

5)   I get it....you appear (from your signature) to agree with Peter Aczel where tubes are concerned. I do not. 

 

Another topic, off topic from the OPs question, so I’ll leave it there. Of course the industry knows that there are suckers who will mess their pants if they just “slap a tube on it,” for anything including phono stages.

 

“Now I would normally say that we will have to agree to disagree but that is usually not acceptable to ABX True Believers.”

 

ABX True Believer? lol Did you learn anything about the scientific method? Call me a true believer any day because the alternative to the scientific method is clearly shown in your post. Don’t ask questions, don’t control for assumptions, use your gut. This isn’t the approach your brain surgeon will use, she will rely on blind testing.

 

“To many of the True Believers that I have exchanged pleasantries with on the 'Net, it is usually ABX is the only way and everyone else is wrong.”

 

Awww you got a cute name for those who simply question your claims. At the end of the day ABX testing is how real testing is done. For me, knowledge about the concept, cost demands and claims from the manufacturer determine its absolute necessity. The more extraordinary the claim then the more extraordinary the evidence needs to be. I found that what my AVR provided for the price didn’t need extraordinary evidence explaining.  

 

“Personally, as previously stated, I audition a new component in my system over time. If I listen to more music, it stays. If less, it goes.”

 

A testing system which doesn’t control for bias and outlying factors. A testing system which doesn’t promote critical thinking. However, it’s a testing system which you do approve of, so what do you gain from peaking at the manufacturing badges, and seeing if there’s a tube slapped on it or not? Do you enjoy the comfort of not asking critical questions?

 

“Music, to me, is an emotional experience. The reproduction of music, how it touches the soul, can't be quantified with specs and measurements. You either feel it or you don't.”

 

Paraphrasing PWK here, but what makes a product different CAN be measured, because otherwise how would a manufacturer know if they HAVE the product or not?

 

“That is why I drive my La Scalas with 845 based SET monoblocks and play my records through tube phono and line stages. That's what works for me. If another path works for you, that is wonderful and I am happy for you.”

 

There is firm science what makes this approach different from a cheaper, more efficient, and more powerful solid state amp, and there’s a cheaper way to achieve exactly what you have, but again you want to listen to your ears and let your brain fall out, to your wallet’s detriment.

 

“I hope that @jkull auditons several different phono stages, both tube and solid state, trusts his own ears and keeps the one that best meets his needs.”

 

And since he posted in a public forum for advice I asked a simple question which you’ve run interference on twice now. Who’s on a crusade again?