Dolby Atmos

[chasec2021]

So, I will be in the market in the future for a new surround sound receiver for my den. I currently have a Yamaha 7.1 receiver that does just fine, but is falling by the wayside as far as technology. My main goal was to upgrade to 7.2, 4K pass through, and wouldn't hurt to have a zone 2 and a second monitor out HDMI port. I have never personally paid much attention to what else there was besides what ports were on it, and how many speakers it could run. Today I am a different person, having taken my daughter to the movies over the weekend, and it having Dolby Atmos. I obviously have read up a little on it in the process of buying new speakers over the past few weeks, but my speakers are kinda over head as it is so I don't even know if it would make a big difference in this house I am in due to the positioning I already have. If anyone here has not seen a movie in an atmos theater, do yourself a treat and check it out.

 

Now my question to you guys is, can you just do a few in ceilings and run them as atmos? I saw a video where a guy was doing that, but I feel like it is on the speaker itself to be able to recreate whatever the technology is, and not just any in ceiling could accomplish what the actual atmos speakers are doing.

 

***Update

 

Best Buy's deal of the day is an Onkyo receiver that would fit all of these criteria, and for a decent price 

• TX-NR646

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/onkyo-1190w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/4960023.p?skuId=4960023&cmp=RMX

 

The only negative is that it's Atmos feature is limited to front left and rights? I don't know enough about Atmos to know if that's a deal breaker or not. I certainly want whatever I get to be for the next 10 years kind of purchase. That to me sounds like a deal breaker. Can anyone weigh in?

 

[willland]

17 hours ago, chasec2021 said:

Best Buy's deal of the day is an Onkyo receiver that would fit all of these criteria, and for a decent price 

• TX-NR646

If it were me, I would not go with a slightly above entry level AVR for a main setup.  The amps will be weak, the DACs/processing will be "entry level", and of course your mentioned "deal breaker".

 

Bill

[chasec2021]

Just now, willland said:

If it were me, I would not go with a slightly above entry level AVR for a main setup.  The amps will be weak, the DACs/processing will be "entry level", and of course your mentioned "deal breaker".

 

Bill

Yea, I think you are right. I think the main issue i have with it was the deal breaker i alluded to. I have always had Yamaha's and am used to their set up. I would prefer to stay with them. This is the one I really want, I'm just waiting to get a deal on it. I have $200 in gift cards to best buy, so if i can get it like 200 more off then Im willing to pull the trigger:

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-1050w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5017502.p?skuId=5017502

[zobsky]

The yamaha A (aventage) series are the ones to get. Consider this one (has zone 2 too, as well as Atmos, and pre-amp outs too, IIRC) . I set one up last weekend and don't have any complaints (note - you might consider tweaking the YPAO settings from flat to natural for a warmer fuller sound, if that's what you're after). 

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-aventage-810w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5081700.p?skuId=5081700

[chasec2021]

19 minutes ago, zobsky said:

The yamaha A (aventage) series are the ones to get. Consider this one (has zone 2 too, as well as Atmos, and pre-amp outs too, IIRC) . I set one up last weekend and don't have any complaints (note - you might consider tweaking the YPAO settings from flat to natural for a warmer fuller sound, if that's what you're after). 

 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-aventage-810w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5081700.p?skuId=5081700

Im not sure I understand the differences in the Avenatage line and the other ones I listed earlier. Im not good at looking at receivers and really understanding the differences in anything outside of cable inputs, speaker setup, wattage, and some of the more basic things. What sets this one apart from the one that I listed? It looks like it uses less power, does that mean anything really? Or does it make up for it because it's a more efficient power, this is where I get confused. I am by no means a sound engineer.

[willland]

2 minutes ago, chasec2021 said:

Im not sure I understand the differences in the Avenatage line and the other ones I listed earlier.

The Yamaha Aventage line of AVRs and pre/pros are a cut above their "lower" more consumer grade line.  Better parts, power supply, DACs, processing, etc.

 

Bill

[zobsky]

Just now, chasec2021 said:

Im not sure I understand the differences in the Avenatage line and the other ones I listed earlier. Im not good at looking at receivers and really understanding the differences in anything outside of cable inputs, speaker setup, wattage, and some of the more basic things. What sets this one apart from the one that I listed? It looks like it uses less power, does that mean anything really? Or does it make up for it because it's a more efficient power, this is where I get confused. I am by no means a sound engineer.

Beefier amplifier circuitry and possibly better built. Aventage is Yamaha's premium line.

 

For example, the receiver you posted weighs 17.9 pounds vs 23.2 pounds for what I suggested even though my choice is "less" powerful.

[chasec2021]

5 hours ago, zobsky said:

Beefier amplifier circuitry and possibly better built. Aventage is Yamaha's premium line.

 

For example, the receiver you posted weighs 17.9 pounds vs 23.2 pounds for what I suggested even though my choice is "less" powerful.

So what does it weighing more mean as far as performance. I really don't understand why I would go with a product that his worse specs in big areas. I really am stupid when it comes to this part

[chasec2021]

5 hours ago, willland said:

The Yamaha Aventage line of AVRs and pre/pros are a cut above their "lower" more consumer grade line.  Better parts, power supply, DACs, processing, etc.

 

Bill

But at the point I am at as far as speakers, do I really need that? By the time I really get into higher end speakers there will be new technologies that the low model Aventage won't support anyway. I will eventually have to upgrade receivers wither way I go just to keep up with what is out in the future. If I had higher end speakers I could see shelling out more money though

[zobsky]

11 minutes ago, chasec2021 said:

So what does it weighing more mean as far as performance. I really don't understand why I would go with a product that his worse specs in big areas. I really am stupid when it comes to this part

More weight means a more robust construction and / or beefier heatsinks . To put it plainly, don't put too much faith in power ratings as a sign of good sound etc . They can and often are deceptive . If you are set on a price point , consider the step down (aventage) receiver from the one i earlier mentioned. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-aventage-665w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5081600.p?skuId=5081600

 

 

If you want to see what the internet has to say about aventage vs. the regular V series yamaha, look for threads like the one below 

 

[derrickdj1]

If you are wanting an avr for the next 10 years, get a good one.  As far as, Atmos, room layout determine if you need top front, top middle or top rear or some combination.  For example, I am around 18 ft. from the Mains.  Top front would not be a good location for Atmos.  Because the speakers are on the ceiling some type of directional tweeter would work best.  This way the sound can be directed toward the listening area.  Regular ceiling speakers will have to be set at a much higher gain to reach the listening area since they are shooting toward the ground.

 

A better avr will also have a tendency to make lower tier speakers sound better.  Just like real life, you can't get a Cadillac for the price of a Ford Fiesta.

 

This is a pic of what I use for Atmos.  The tweeter can be aimed and there are also bass and treble controls for the speaker.

[willland]

5 hours ago, chasec2021 said:

So what does it weighing more mean as far as performance. I really don't understand why I would go with a product that his worse specs in big areas. I really am stupid when it comes to this part

First, you are not stupid.

 

Second, let me give an example.

 

My 2007 Onkyo TX-SR705 AVR is rated at 100w/ch@8ohms(20Hz to 20kHz) and weighs 28.4lbs.  The equivalent model today is the TX-NR757 which is rated at 110w/ch@8ohms(20Hz to 20kHz) and weighs in at a paltry 22lbs.  Where did most of the heft(6.4lbs) go from the old to the new?  For one, plastic faceplate shaved a small amount of weight while most loss came in in the form of a weaker power supply and smaller heatsinks to cram all the newer features/channels into the box.

 

Bill

 

 

[chasec2021]

15 hours ago, zobsky said:

More weight means a more robust construction and / or beefier heatsinks . To put it plainly, don't put too much faith in power ratings as a sign of good sound etc . They can and often are deceptive . If you are set on a price point , consider the step down (aventage) receiver from the one i earlier mentioned. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/yamaha-aventage-665w-7-2-ch-network-ready-4k-ultra-hd-and-3d-pass-through-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/5081600.p?skuId=5081600

 

 

If you want to see what the internet has to say about aventage vs. the regular V series yamaha, look for threads like the one below 

 

Yea, if anything, that forum only made me question it more haha

[chasec2021]

9 hours ago, willland said:

First, you are not stupid.

 

Second, let me give an example.

 

My 2007 Onkyo TX-SR705 AVR is rated at 100w/ch@8ohms(20Hz to 20kHz) and weighs 28.4lbs.  The equivalent model today is the TX-NR757 which is rated at 110w/ch@8ohms(20Hz to 20kHz) and weighs in at a paltry 22lbs.  Where did most of the heft(6.4lbs) go from the old to the new?  For one, plastic faceplate shaved a small amount of weight while most loss came in in the form of a weaker power supply and smaller heatsinks to cram all the newer features/channels into the box.

 

Bill

 

 

And that's all well and good, but would I truly notice a dip in performance going from the low end Aventage to the high end RX V? Like I said earlier, if you are trying to keep up with technology every 7-10 years, and both options will do the trick, why spend more on things that may only be affecting the longevity and sturdiness if only to be replaced anyway to keep up with what all is out there. 

 

I want to have a great movie setup, not just listen to music. It may even be wise for me to go with a receiver for now that doesn't even support atmos and save the money, as it will be  a LONG time before i have enough speakers for that setup. By the time I have built to that point, there will be new stuff out and can upgrade again then

[zobsky]

1 hour ago, chasec2021 said:

Yea, if anything, that forum only made me question it more haha

You could take one for the team and buy both, compare them, return the one you don't want

... and then report back with your findings

[willland]

2 hours ago, chasec2021 said:

And that's all well and good, but would I truly notice a dip in performance going from the low end Aventage to the high end RX V?

I can't say 100%.  I do know that the Aventage line is built on a better platform, from top to bottom.  How much better with a lower tier Aventage AVR, I can't say.  Your point is valid.  Your money, your decisions.  I do understand that.

 

2 hours ago, chasec2021 said:

Like I said earlier, if you are trying to keep up with technology every 7-10 years, and both options will do the trick, why spend more on things that may only be affecting the longevity and sturdiness if only to be replaced anyway to keep up with what all is out there. 

As you can see, I am still using my 10 year old 705 that has served me very well and it gets daily use in my bedroom system.  I never listen to music on it, occasionally watch BD's, and watch TV most every night.  The only thing that is not "up to date" on it is Atmos/DTS:X capabilities, 4K and networking functions.  

 

3 hours ago, chasec2021 said:

I want to have a great movie setup, not just listen to music. It may even be wise for me to go with a receiver for now that doesn't even support atmos and save the money, as it will be  a LONG time before i have enough speakers for that setup.

I think you are spot on with that.  I most likely will never "upgrade" to Atmos in my family room in my current home.  Room layout would only accommodate front Atmos speakers and that would be kind of pointless IMO.  Save some $$$ and get a "better" non Atmos AVR.  

 

Bill

[chasec2021]

14 hours ago, willland said:

I can't say 100%.  I do know that the Aventage line is built on a better platform, from top to bottom.  How much better with a lower tier Aventage AVR, I can't say.  Your point is valid.  Your money, your decisions.  I do understand that.

 

As you can see, I am still using my 10 year old 705 that has served me very well and it gets daily use in my bedroom system.  I never listen to music on it, occasionally watch BD's, and watch TV most every night.  The only thing that is not "up to date" on it is Atmos/DTS:X capabilities, 4K and networking functions.  

 

I think you are spot on with that.  I most likely will never "upgrade" to Atmos in my family room in my current home.  Room layout would only accommodate front Atmos speakers and that would be kind of pointless IMO.  Save some $$$ and get a "better" non Atmos AVR.  

 

Bill

I think when it comes down to it, the MAIN thing I want to have the capability of is 4K pass through. If I had the choice to do what I wanted, in order would be:

 

Plan A:

1.Buy surround side speakers, such as I have discussed. A RS-(to be determined) ii (Budget will be probably be $700)

2.Buy a 4K tv (Budget will be probably be $1500)

    (a)Not just any 4K TV, a quality one. I got my 60 Samsung 2 years ago, and it was one of the top of the line, non 4K tv's Samsung made. I am not gonna replace it with a lower end 4K TV, plain and simple. 

3. Move to a different house with a better setup for HT. I am getting married and the lady is already talking babies, and I have full custody of my 4 year old daughter, so the move will happen within a few years I would assume. (You don't need to know my budget on this you sick fools!)

4.Buy some towers, probably the RF 82 ii's. I'm not buying RF 7's for my first towers, then I wouldn't know the difference down the road (Budget will be probably be around $700 or so, just by seeing what holiday prices were for the 82 iis this year. Hopefully next year they will go down, as I would like to stay with the Ref ii's all around)

   (a) This would mean that I would have to move my newly purchased RB 61 iis to the rear, which was the plan all along when I bought them, thus completing my HT for a 7.1 setup.

 

THEN I would want to start building the Atmos part of my HT. So as you can see, Atmos is in the latter phases of my plans for the future, and could be 3-5 years before I even really start thinking about spending money on upgrading to Atmos. So just by the budgets I have named here, that would come to around $3000, and that does not include Atmos speakers or the receiver.

 

So the issue I am having here is this: By this point in time, there may be a better version of Dolby/DTS that has surpassed Atmos, and will have wasted extra money trying to future proof a receiver that never even used the capability by that time of Atmos AND doesn't support whatever the new technology is. I think If I can get one for around $400 now, the only future proofing I will be needing to do at this time would be becoming 4K ready for when I want to buy a new TV

 

Plan B:

1.Buy a good receiver with Atmos

2.Buy a couple of in ceilings like Derrickdj1 posted.

3.Then start plan A

 

 

 

[chasec2021]

On 1/4/2017 at 10:39 PM, derrickdj1 said:

If you are wanting an avr for the next 10 years, get a good one.  As far as, Atmos, room layout determine if you need top front, top middle or top rear or some combination.  For example, I am around 18 ft. from the Mains.  Top front would not be a good location for Atmos.  Because the speakers are on the ceiling some type of directional tweeter would work best.  This way the sound can be directed toward the listening area.  Regular ceiling speakers will have to be set at a much higher gain to reach the listening area since they are shooting toward the ground.

 

A better avr will also have a tendency to make lower tier speakers sound better.  Just like real life, you can't get a Cadillac for the price of a Ford Fiesta.

 

This is a pic of what I use for Atmos.  The tweeter can be aimed and there are also bass and treble controls for the speaker.

How well do these in ceilings go with my Klipsch set up? I want to make sure whatever I would get would match. These exact speakers are not outrageously priced.

[chasec2021]

I just had a thought... I have 2 more quintet satellites.. what if I mounted those to the ceiling and ran them in an Atmos setup and angled them to the primary viewing area? They would match my current surround sides/rears as it stands, and later on when I replace another pair such as the sides, then I could end up with 7.1.4. My gut says 7.1.2 is plenty either way though.

[holtrp]

Just a couple thoughts here...

 

Isn't true Atmos 11 discrete channels? I thought you need full 7 channel surround plus 4 additional in-ceiling or otherwise height channels for true 3D object based audio? Anything less is just matrixed. So with that in mind, I don't think a 7 channel AVR will cut it, especially if you are looking for something for the next +10 years. 

 

You should easily be able to find a used pair of RSxii used. I saw a pair on Craigslist a few weeks ago for $350 and he probably would have taken less. I demoed both the RS-52 and 62 and couldn't tell any difference, so I wouldn't hesitate to go with the 52 or even the 42 if you can find them cheap. 

 

$1500 for a 4k TV. You could get a 1080P projector and 100" screen for about half of that. Some of that money could be invested in the best mains you can afford and quality subs. Subs and as large of a projection screen I could fit in my room was hands down the best improvements I have made.

 

I am really all for 4k and Atmos. The biggest issue right now I see is there is still a lack of content. I think in another 3-5 years when there is much more content available in 4k-HDR/Dolbyvision and Dolby Atmos / DTS-X, true 4k projectors will be available, 11 channel pre/pros will be cheap, that will be the time to upgrade.