jstanton Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Problem I'm having is that at the volumes I sometimes listen to,(and with the appropriate amount of bass I require), those K-horn midranges are going to make my ears bleed. I wondering if maybe Al K's x-overs might be of some use in taming those mids at higher volumes? It's been suggested previously that I get some subwoofers so as not to drive the K-horns quite so hard. I have already got some subwoofage(KSW-15)and am putting together an amp/preamp to drive a couple SVSs in the near future. But by God I didn't get K-horns to play them like a sissy...I could have gotten any number of speakers that I could do that with. But on the other hand I don't want to impair my hearing any more than it already is. Has anybody out there ever replaced AK-3 crossovers in their K-horns with the Al Klappenberg x-overs, and if so, how'd they sound compared to AK-3s? Klipsch tech support told me that replacing the AK-3s wouldn't get me all that much overall improvement, but that if I had an "earlier model" crossover it might be worth it... ------------------ 32" Hi-scan Sony WEGA Amp: Yamaha DSP-A1 Mains: '99 K-horns Center: KLF-C7 & JBL S- Center Front Effects: KSP-S6s Rear Surrounds: KLF-30s Sub: KSW-15 DVD: Pioneer DVD-414 MD: Sony Mini-Disc Recorder (Walkman) VCR: JVC S-VHSby God This message has been edited by jstanton on 09-25-2002 at 11:44 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Do a search in the archives in updating speakers; you will get TONS of comments on Khorn crossovers. Personally, in my opinion, your amplification is also a big culprit with high quality tube amplification getting the nod. With a 104dB speaker, the first few watts are what really counts. Many are opting for the original Type A crossover, a few have recently made it and really liked the results. Please see Guy Landau for his comments as he prefered the Type A to his ALKs which he is now selling. Contact him if interested. Of course, many also like the ALKs. One thing, he will give a refund if you dont approve. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Here's an unbiased comparison... http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001429.html Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 I haven't found that the tonal character of the Khorns changes with volume, so adding a sub wouldn't be your best option. My '85 Khorns originally came with the AK-2 crossovers and found their tonal balance OK for my room, which is acoustically treated. I upgraded to the ALK and am very happy with the results. I actually DECREASED the attenuation on the midrange horn to suit my taste. I also found the Khorns can exhibit a wide range of "sonic character" depending on what components, cables, etc., one is using. I think your problem lies elsewhere: 1. Your room's acoustics. It may be quite lively, reflective, etc. Since you haven't described your lay-out, I can't comment much further. 2. Your amplification. I personally don't care for the sound of Khorns with s-s gear. You may want to try tubes. 3. In my experience s-s gear is quite susceptible to power line disturbances = grungy sound. So a power line conditioner may be in order, especially if you live in an urban area. 4. Interconnects and speaker cable. HIGHLY controversial here. 5. If it isn't any of these, get an ALK which allows for about a 10 dB increae in attenuation over the stock crossover. ------------------ 2 Channel Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Jeff Korneff 45 Interconnects/Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords/line conditioner: CPCC Top Gun, Model 11, Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco K-horns w/ALK Second system- My dad's old Fisher 400-refurbished, Heresy II, Vecteur Variation CD player This message has been edited by Mike82 on 09-25-2002 at 12:49 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Here is another comparison with Khorn owners chiming in with all sides represented, more or less. Guy Landau's comments are also here. http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001032.html kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Mike, do you run your amps on this PS conditioner? I have not found a SINGLE conditioner to do anything but degrade the performance of amplifiers, especially when you get up into the quality SET amps. I have not heard the PS Audio units, however. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike82 Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Mobile: I tried the PS Audio conditioner ($995 at the time) and was totally unimpressed. Did it make a difference? Yes, but slight. Was it an improvement? I don't know. The Custom Power Cord Company (Luxor) Super Power Block ($445) ate the PS Audio for lunch. And at half the $$$. Edster also had a chance to hear it on his rig. You are correct about plugging a tube amp in a conditioner. I've tried several and it clearly darkens and closes down the sound, so my amp goes straight into the wall. The transport, DAC, and pre-amp go into the power block. However, in the case of s-s amps (I've used only integrated amps, about 60 watts/ch), I plug them into the power block and get a significant decrease in grain and much better musicality without darkening or closing the presentation. ------------------ 2 Channel Transport: CEC TL-2X DAC: Audiomat Maestro Pre-amp: Wyetech Jade Amps: Jeff Korneff 45 Interconnects/Speaker cable: Analysis Plus Solo Monocrystal Power cords/line conditioner: CPCC Top Gun, Model 11, Super Power Block Equip Stand: Grand Prix Audio Monaco K-horns w/ALK Second system- My dad's old Fisher 400-refurbished, Heresy II, Vecteur Variation CD player This message has been edited by Mike82 on 09-25-2002 at 02:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Mike, I like you already. Even if you do have ALKs. jstanton, I have one thing to say: GIGO. OK, more than one. You have the world's finest speakers, and what you put in one end is what comes out the other. I agree 100% with what Mike has to say on your dilemma. I would hold off on the ALKs until Kelly has had a chance to audition them in his Cornies. But Mike liking them has produced a weird cognitive dissonance thing in my head. I always attributed their approval to people who wouldn't know good sound if it sat in their lap and bit them on the nose. Maybe.... just maybe..... I'm wra... wrra.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 Randy, did you see that thread I posted above with the discussion concerning the DIY Type A crossovers vs the ALK? It was an interesting thread. I do know that I really like my original Type B crossovers which have two stately big ole OILS in them which Al thinks is heresy due to the "high loss" in passive application compared to film & foil. I personally dont care how things measure in this instance as I, like DJK said in another thread, dont think we have come to understand measurements in relation to the sound of caps. I know that the vintage oils in my CW sound VERY smooth and nice and with my 2A3 monoblocks (something else that Al does not like) it is VERY nice with extremely natural sonics. Still, I do want to hear some ALKs but they will be the Type B CW version. I have liked film and foil/polypropylene etc in my other speakers...but felt the oils to be VERY nice in the horns. Of course, you know my partial nature to the Jensen copper Foil oils in the active coupling spots. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 Kelly, I guess that I liked the sound of my original type AA also and wanted to hear something different.This may have been the reason for liking the ALK crossover because it added greater resolution but did make the sound thin.I think this is the same debate as between prefering tube amps or solid state amps. I guess that I should have removed the tweeter protection diods in my original type AA,at first and than I probably would'nt have to change anything. I still think that the type A is the best crossover for the Klipschorn and its simplicity sure contribue to the wonderfull sound(I am still amazed by the added midrange information). Unfortunately I might be needed to sell the klipschorns soon since we need the place and settle for the JBL L300's or L65-JUBAL . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted September 26, 2002 Share Posted September 26, 2002 I drive a pair of k-horns with a Sony TA-F606ES integrated amp (80Wx2) and I have no midrange complaints. Sure, the bass is shelved down a bit relative to the mids, but that's what tone controls and equalizers (and room tweaking!) are for. I'd sure try that before swapping crossovers. With the ALK's, you may like the sound better, or you may not. With a good EQ, you can fiddle till you're satisfied. There's a lot of prejudice against anything that is affordable, particularly if it's of Asian manufacture. IMO, the Yamaha is a nice amp; super clean! To each his own, but I'd sure recommend judicious use of a good EQ or maybe a little room tuning before doing the retro/tube thing. ------------------ JDM '98 klipschorns, Infinity SM-120's (surr.) Dynaco QD-2 Sennheiser HD-580's Sony TA-F606ES int. amp. Sony ST-S550ES tuner Sony CDP-X33ES CD player Sony DTC-75ES DAT recorder Sony PS-LX510 turntable w/ Audio-Technica AT-216EP cartridge Akai HX-A3 cassette decks> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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