Jump to content

Speaker Cabinet Design ... Help; Lost :(


Emile

Recommended Posts

Hope you experts can give me some guidance as I am completely lost :D Trying to build a new cabinet for a 12" woofer (and a 14x8" horn). All info I have seen is very conflicting; showing volume sizes differing by up to 300%  :(

 

Background ... did not like my (small) Klisch KV2 center speaker (with KPT-904 mains), so was looking for another solution. Found a Yamaha stage monitor speaker (S112IV; 12" woofer and 14x8 horn w/ 2" diaphragm, pic at end of post), and was very pleased with the sound. FYI, forum veteran @Thaddeus Smith tried it with a similar (15") Yammie and I'm pretty sure he is impressed also. But; it is a stage monitor, meaning "rat fur" cloth covering which yields a 0/10 on the WAF meter. So; why not put the components in another (wife friendly) walnut box - haha with a Klipsch logo? (And, to keep the size small, I thought a sealed box would be OK as it is a center speaker and doesn't need low bass.)

 

After days and days, I finally got the T/S specs from Eminence (mfg of the woofer;  Yamaha model JAY51200). They are:

05-RE OHMS    5.66         13-FS HZ      47.72

06-LE MH       .93         14-MMS GMS    34.80

07-QM         3.10         15-CMS mm/N    .3195

08-QE         .480         16-RMS NS/M   3.3707

09-QT         .420         17-VAS LTRS   127.19

10-XMAX MM   3.00          18-SD SCM     532.36

11-BL TM    11.05          19-EBP        98.6

12-EFF %     2.75          20-SPL dB     96.4

 

So; plugged these into a couple of online cabinet size calculators and got 3-4 cuft as recommended for a SEALED box  (over 7 cuft for ported). First comment; does not make much sense as the original Yammie box is ported and ONLY has an internal volume of about 2.0 cuft. (I "***-umed" that I could build a sealed box even smaller than that.) Anyone ???? :( 

 

Next it gets even more confusing. Eminence told me a "cheaper' replacement for this driver is their model "Beta-12A-2." Eminence shows a ported box volume for this at 4.75 cuft and a sealed box (with heavy polyfill) at 0.9 cuft.  ????? 1/5th the size ????  Parts-Express recommends 2.36 cuft sealed and  7.35 cuft ported. PE's 2.36 vs Eminence 0.9 cuft just because of some polyfill ??????

 

Obviously these numbers are "all over  the place" and I have NO CLUE why :( :( Furthermore, don't want to spend $200 (baltic birch and veneer) plus weeks building a box which is completely wrong :(  My only "uneducated" solution is to "copy" the Yamaha design ... or throw it away as my wife will not allow a "rat fur" box :D 

 

Many, many thanks for any inputs/thoughts :D 

 

Cheers, Emile

 

601205000000000-00-500x500.jpg

IMG_2116.JPG

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Start a thread and see if someone has a Parts express woofer tester and see if they'd check your driver and give you the T/S parameters for that particular driver.  As much of this stuff that I play with, I should have one but don't:sad:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, twk123 said:

The only think I can suggest is throwing it in one of these

Thanks @twk123. Haha ... Great minds think alike :D ... that was my first thought also :D  Read the reviews on this and the quality is not "great."  Plus thought I could make the box even smaller by going to a rectangular design vs the trapezoidal shape :) 

Cheers, Emile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since you're already in the frame of mind to build and veneer, it may be easier to just rip off the carpet, scrape whatever glue remains, and apply veneer. I think mine are of a slightly older generation than yours, but I pulled the drivers on one and it looks like they use a really dense particle board for primary construction, with some blocks of actual plywood in place for the hanging eyelets to bolt through. Standard fiberglass batting and a thick piece of carboard stapled into place to cover over the area where the transport handle lives.

 

I think I've resigned to the fact that mines going to stay carpeted and I'll just throw a fresh coat of satin or flat black on the grille and corner protectors. The yamaha badge appears to be stuck on using double sided adhesive. It's solidly built, but very obviously never intended to see the inside of a living room.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

Since you're already in the frame of mind to build and veneer, it may be easier to just rip off the carpet, scrape whatever glue remains, and apply veneer. [edit] It's solidly built, but very obviously never intended to see the inside of a living room.

Thank you SIR :D Yes; thought about that :) but all edges are "rounded" and as an amateur woodworker, I have no clue how to veneer those :(  

Yes, my wife strongly agrees :( ... "never intended to see the inside of a living room" :D 

Cheers, Emile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is an idea: since it is front ported anyway, why dont you just build a box for the whole Yamaha speaker to fit into with dark grill cloth and nobody would know the difference.

 

On a side note, are those separate cabs for the KPT 904 horns? That looks really clean. Lol I thought they were cornwalls at first.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

"Well Michael got one too and his wife doesn't seem to mind"

Going to try that :D  Funny part is ... got this speaker last Thursday and put it in front of the fireplace ... wife did not "notice it" till 1/2 hour ago ... her comments were "not positive" ... Haha :D 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, twk123 said:

Here is an idea: since it is front ported anyway, why dont you just build a box for the whole Yamaha speaker to fit into with dark grill cloth and nobody would know the difference.

 

And then there's that. I really like this solution..

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, twk123 said:

Here is an idea: since it is front ported anyway, why dont you just build a box for the whole Yamaha speaker to fit into with dark grill cloth and nobody would know the difference.

 

On a side note, are those separate cabs for the KPT 904 horns? That looks really clean. Lol I thought they were cornwalls at first.

Yeah ... that is the plan. Just trying to do it right re cab size, but terribly confused. For the woofer only recommended sizes range from 0.9 to 4 cuft ???? Also ... have some heritage cloth left over :D from my (little) project of grilles for the KPT bass boxes and separate cabinets for the horns. YES; WAF!

Cheers, Emile 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

And then there's that. I really like this solution

YES ... 2 cuft as in the original box or 7 cuft as "recommended."  :D  The numbers don't make any sense to me :( 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Emile said:

Yeah ... that is the plan. Just trying to do it right re cab size, but terribly confused.

 

No no, build a box that will fit the entire speaker cabinet that you currently have inside of it. Volume never changes and you get a shape that's only slightly bigger in most dimensions and then you have easy angles and material to veneer. Then grill cloth the whole front.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Thaddeus Smith said:

No no, build a box that will fit the entire speaker cabinet

Michael, interesting thought and certainly less work :)  Let me "sleep" on that one :D Bad part is that it will then weigh 60 lbs instead of 40 lbs :( 

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Emile said:

Michael, interesting thought and certainly less work :)  Let me "sleep" on that one :D Bad part is that it will then weigh 60 lbs instead of 40 lbs :( 

At least you wont really have to move it very often. lol I am currently using a 50lb HIP that I put an internal amp into as a boombox and lug it all around the house. :cool:

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Speaker cabinet volume calculations are a complete waste of time!

 

OK; trying to see if I would get some comments on this :D  Got the T/S parameters for my driver - see original post in this thread.  Used several online calculators and the results averaged to about 2.5 cuft.  Manufacturer (Eminence) recommends 0.9-1.3 cuft. Haha :(  And even funnier ... have this speaker in the original PORTED stage monitor box with internal volume of about 2.0 cuft. Note; since it is PORTED it should translate roughly to a "closed" 1.0 cuft box.  

 

Guess I'll just buy some wood, and start cutting without measuring anything :D 

 

Cheers, Emile

Link to comment
Share on other sites

here's what I get in hornresp for a 3.35 cubic foot reflex tuned to around 37Hz

 

I forgot to hit the lossy inductance model - but that would still be ok - am not sure how that works with this type driver.  The cabinet could be made a bit smaller - maybe down to 75 liter if the lowpass inductor (if used)  DCR is low.

 

If somehow the bass sounds taut and musical, then might not be worth the trouble/hassle of a new cabinet

 

AgCGhXF.jpg

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...