mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Well, thought I would start a new thread here concerning the introduction of some new preamp/amp kits from Welborne Labs to replace their preamps and more famous 2A3 Moondogs and 300B Laurel IIx Single-ended triode amplifiers. Yes, the 2A3 Moondogs and 300B Laurels are NO more. There is a sale right now on the last kits (and one hell of a final build by Ron himself for $$$$$). The good news is he is replacing it with some kits that will actually be less expensive for the basic versions on up to more expensive with higher quality options. Ole Ron likens it to the "Dell ordering" principle where you can mix and match parts to tailor the sound to your liking. Or course, the price can start going up when you starting adding in Silver wired transformers and Silver Foil caps! He is doing a battery powered Ultrapath preamp that looks pretty interesting. Likes others, Ron is finding some of the biggest improvements are coming from removing the harm and garbage associated with power from the line. In comes the BATTERY power option and the results look very good. The amp is going for a low voltage direct coupled affair called a Direct Reactance Drive DRD** amp that will be using lower voltage that brings some of the same results. Here is Ron quoted from the site: These results then got me thinking about the DRD amp prototypes (no I haven't designed a battery-powered 300B amp!). But I did begin to wonder if a lower-voltage version of the DRD amp might be a direction to pursue. Yes, the DRD design does give one the ability to squeeze more output from a 2A3 or 300B. But when you get down to the details, how much difference is there between a 2.5 watt and 4 watt 2A3 amp or an 8 watt versus a 12 watt 300B amp.....not much in terms of power! So the wheels were in motion and the 300B DRD amp was ripped apart and converted to a low voltage version...less than 500 volts on the plate. Ta-da.....that was the ticket baby! Once again, the graininess was gone, the noise floor lowered significantly (got to stick your head right up the throat of the bass horn to hear any hum) and the analog-like qualities of the Ultra-Path linestage were now even more apparent in my system. Take a look at the new interior of the basic amp. It IS very clean. Tube rectification can be added if desired along with many options. Another option I am interested in is the move to large oil caps for the power supply. Looks to be some interesting stuff and coming in below the old kits for the basic kit. Cash poor but soldering iron ready should take heed. Perhaps some nice options with custom transformers from Jack at Electra-Print. Here is the full info page - See schematics, more pics, preamp and amp etc: http://www.welbornelabs.com/pipeline.htm kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Maybe some of those POS Moondogs or Laurels will show up on AudiogoN soon, as everyone will hopefully be struck with the upgrade bug. Wish there was a way to keep my SuperAmp AND go SET as well. Over the last week I have wondered if I have finally reached the point of diminishing returns. When I listen to the system, I can't really hear anything in the sound that I feel needs "improvement". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 mobile, Some very interesting inovation. I did not see any pricing. Seems to present an opportunity to do the basic kit, tube rectification, and some exceptional transformers as a jump off point. The wiring simplicity should make it easy to upgrade as money and taste allow. It may create the opportunity for me to build a future amp, something I've never cured myself of wanting to do. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 It will probably be in the neighborhood of the old kits and a little less since there are less parts in these kits. These basic designs were first published in VTV in issues 10 for Ultrapath preamp and 14 for the DRD amp. The preamp is quoted at $700 for the basic on to $1200 for the Ultimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 How interesting! I was just reading in the Aug/Sept issue of Absolute Sound that fuel cells are being looked at to replace the rechargable batteries for audio use. Apparently, they are already available for use with some laptop computers. It is anticipated that there will be several more types available for commercial use (audio?) in 2004. The upside is that they do not degrade like batteries when recharged, and there is even a fuel cell under development that will be able to reconstitute its fuel by plugging it into an outlet. It should be able to sustain thousands of recharges. Low and behold, a marketing manager for a high-end cable company predicts lobbyists will try to outlaw this technology, but they would be up against Microsoft, Cisco, Lucent and other giants, and unlikely to succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 Just a straight foreward and plain unit, id say! The bottom reminded me of the bottom of an old turntable! Why are you guys paying so much for so little? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 Jim, get your signature shorter than your post, and we'll answer! heh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted October 13, 2002 Share Posted October 13, 2002 LOL got tired of it myself. I know that less electronics is better! Thats a nice pre amp, id take it anyday! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 13, 2002 Author Share Posted October 13, 2002 Heh... I was just giving you a hard time. And, trying to justify the price myself - Why do you think I get only USED audio! Actually, a lot of the parts in these kits are handmade. And a bulk of the money goes to the transformers/chokes etc. Add the tubes, custom output/power iron, caps (hell, you dont want to KNOW how much those Black Gate WKZ power supply caps are), wood chassis, wire, etc. and you have a product that is actually not making that many ducats. And you save if you do the work on your own. One good thing is that WL put the schematics on that page I linked above, so anyone can source the parts and pick and choose where the money will go (all you have to do is GUESS the part specs! heh...) I havent done it yet, but I imagine the kit cost is not that much more than you can source them youself (same parts that is). And as said, you can always sub cheaper parts at the same spec. You are right, though; there is not much in those beasts! kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Jim, The major cost of the amp or pre really is the high quality parts. Hopefully with Ron buying larger quantity cheaper than you or I can purchase them at 2 each, the kit is worth the cost. Hand made parts are always more expensive, but the element of craftmanship far exceeds mass market products. I am one who supports keeping these high level skills, craftmanship, and products alive within our shores and generally willing to pay the premium for them. I still consider the now "classic" 2A3 Moondogs an outstanding value product for the price. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted October 14, 2002 Share Posted October 14, 2002 Kit Prices: I recently priced building a pair of parafeed 2A3 amps and it exceeded any kit pricing I found. Part prices for 1 or two of anything is several times the price for as few as 100. I'm happy to pay a kit supplier a few dollars for a package that includes parts at lower than my cost and a good design. For me, the question is whether or not I want a new amp. I think the kits ar a deal. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.