mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Well, since you have an acrylic platter, I actually imagine the benefit would be slightly less since a lot of people actually rest the record directly on some of the acrylic platters. I am not sure if the MMF-7 has the same acrylic consistancy as the other platters such as the VPI. I have read other reports that it is the non-slip shelf lining material you can get in different colors with black an option. Then again, cutting the beast pefectly so you dont have any imbalance is not that easy. I have read far more positive than negative however. But as you found with the table, take a breath and perhaps audition it a bit longer. The fact that you hear abosolutely NO difference between the felt mat and the rubber liner mat is indicative enough that you probably need some more listening time. Whether you like it more or not is perhaps debatable, but I can not believe there is no sonic difference between the felt and this alternative. IF I put that sorbothane rubber mat on my Linn the sound turns to S*** becoming more muted. If anything, you should hear some differences. Most of the opinions I have read have been positive. But, as always, you can fire the whole nine yards back where it came from. I would give it a few more days. Remember, you have to set the VTA for the extra thickness of the mat. Have you set your VTA carefully? This can make a huge difference in the sound and with that mat, I suspect the VTA will have to be raised. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 How do you adjust VTA and what is it? I did get the little Shure stylus guage and set it for 1.7 Kilograms , I believe that was the correct weight. (I use a pliers to pull the stylus out of the vinyl)..... I mean 1.7 grams.....I think..... -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Holy Mother of St. Nick!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Clipped , Rest assured that with 1.7 kilograms you will be extracting every single bit of information from those grooves.... probably only once though ;-) - tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Lord...I had to recover in a WHOLE OTHER POST after that one! You mean, you have been doing all this listening with NO adjustment of the VTA of either your Technics 1200 mk II OR the MMF-7????? Indeed, the 1200 Mk II has the easiest VTA adjuster of about any table... I am really shocked. I dont mean to give you a hard time as much as just express this. I posted a whole slew of links on proper cartridge alignment and adjustment along with the means to do it. These were some VERY good links. Head to the Vinyl Asylum FAQ. Right now, see below. A Beginners Guide to Cartridge Setup Here are some comments on VTA or "Vertical Tracking Angle" from Laura Dearborn. Vertical Tracking Angle Unless your tonearm has a special VTA adjuster, adjusting arm height can be a major nuisance, and particularly so if the arm pillar is held at a selected height only by a set screw. In these designs, altering height means releasing the setscrew, which usually results in the arm pillar dropping precipitously, leaving you in the dark about the original point from which you are now trying to add or decrease height. (I speak from bitter experience.) Jam the gap between pillar neck and collar with business cards so the pillar cannot fall when released or find/make a block that fits between the arm mount and the underside of the arm structure. See your tonearm manual for its recommendations on adjusting arm pillar height. The best approach is to tune-in VTA gradually by listening to music. You know the arm needs to be lowered at the arm pillar when the overall sound is hard and bright, with thin bass or no deep bass, edgy highs, and harsh midrange (of course, this could also be tracking force which is too light). Distortion obscures low level details between the musical; notes so dynamic range is reduced. Transient attacks may be too sharp. Raise the arm when the sound is dull and damped, the highs rolled off, the lows muddy and lacking definition, and transient attacks are dull. Mind you, this sounds an awful lot like the effects of changes in tracking force (too light is edgy, too heavy is heavy and dull). They are different sounding but hard to explain. Start with the arm a little low and very gradually raise it, first to where it is parallel to the record, and then so the back of the cartridge is tilting up. Keep track of your settings so you can return to the one you like best where everything snaps into focus. The range of adjustments can be quite broad, as much as 3/4" or even more (at the arm pivot). Play with the full range so you know what it sounds like and dont It takes time to learn how to "HEAR" to adjust the VTA. I say to err on the too low side rather than too high. IF you have the back of your arm too high, that annoying brightness will result and remind one a bit of what is bad about digital! Surface noise will also be accented. Your 1200 Mk II has a BIG DIAL on the base for easy VTA adjustment to move the entire tonearm up and down in the back. As for the Pro-ject 9, I know it is adjustable, just not how exactly. This is a very important adjustment as getting it dialed in REALLY brings the sound together. As I said, too high is a common mistake and will result in bright, edgy sound. Give it a good listen and see what you come up with. Be P A T I E N T! You have to listen here. Good luck. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 You know, I read these kinds of threads and just think 'what complete and utter bull****." I am sitting here listening to my POS EICO and Technics SL-DL5 with its 'haven't been played in 15 years Pickering cartridge and I am in heaven. Could it get better? Dunno. This is sweet. 84 Heresies, 50 something Eico, early eighties Technics (and Cartridge), and a 72 Vinyl Rod Stewart LP. Damn. MH says skip the phone on the Eico, skip the direct-drive Technics...he may be right, but how close to heaven can you get? I suffer from the BBD so I will listen but GD, it is awesome right now. Wake up Maggie, I think I got something to say to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Crash Happy to hear that You be Happy ! That said I recommend that you archive this info and should/when the day come(s) that you find a need to make the kind of adjustments discussed you will need only to search your HDD rather than the whole farging internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 What's even more fun is dialing in the VTA on a Rega RB-900. I can remove/replace the arm darn near in the dark, kinda like field-stripping a Colt 1911 45. It makes VTA adjustment on my Linn Ittok LVII seem easy by comparison, but taking the time to adjust VTA correctly does pay off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Wow! VTA is the one thing you have to fiddle with the MOST to dial in your analog set-up. Tracking weight is cake. VTA can take DAYS to figure out, but if you don't do it you will NEVER know what you have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Oh yeah, the VTA on my Technics had been carefully adjusted, and the MMF-7 came already adjusted. I just didn't recognize the abbreviation (what is that word for a group of letters that becomes the "label" for something?). I feel fairly confident that these adjustments are correct and that whatever "brightness" I might experience is inherent in the Cornwalls, a well known attribute of said speakers. My point was that whatever subtle benefits that might be obtained by these donut carpet mats is outweighed by the utter nuisance of them sticking to the LPs every time. They do not mention a method for fastening these mats to the table. I think contact cement might get messy and I don't like the smell of epoxy, so that leaves library paste, mmm good. -c7s -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well, I just went ahead and ordered one. I will report back after getting a chance to play with it... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 I'll bet you dollars to donuts (!!!!) that the "factory" setting on the Music Hall is wrong. Play with it for a few days and decide--you'll really learn a lot even if the original setting is optimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 fini saw the mat I got and is quite confident that they are made from a readily obtainable carpet underlay material that is available in large rolls at the local Costco for cheap. He said he thought it would be fun to make them for everyone on the forum for 50 cents. How hard could it be to cut out a circle with a pair of scissors and a "sewing" pattern? -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 My replacement MMF-7 should be here tomorrow ... Has anyone figured out to adjust the VTA on that table? There's no documentation with it that addresses that issue. I think I'll mail Walter and see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Rubbermaid markets the stuff as shelf liner. Sears sells it for lining tool drawers. Cut 'em out with a hole punch, a trashed record as a template, and an exacto knife. I'd save my dough for more records. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 I heard it was the shelf material too. You can get it in different colors as well including the black. Someone need to find the exact kind used as I imagine there are quite a few options. I have some in my kitchen and it is slightly different (not to mention off white). I would be up to experimenting with the home made vs Donut. kh ps- CS, I hope you were kidding about using some form of adhesive! lordy! PLEASE DONT DO THAT! Do try using NO MAT on your acylic platter to see how it sounds. BTW, your VTA will change with the MAT as it is thicker than your felt mat, so the factory specs would not apply. There is stuff all over the site about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Chris, Let us know exactly what Walter says. -c7s The word is ACRONYM, right? Now that wasn't so hard, so why didn't anyone answer when I asked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well, we can only answer so much in each post!!! heh...lordy. Besides, I thought it was a semi-rhetorical question anyway. I find if I answer too many things in one post, you are going to write asking about something that I already said most of the time... You crazy art teachers are all the same! heh.... Yeah, as an English teacher at times, I know only too well. Then again, I held a job as an Engineer for eight years and didnt you major in Engineering of some sort? Life is Upside down. Hell, just look at our current administration! heh... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Wow Kelly, you never cease to amaze! I didn't know you were an Engineer ... what line did you work for ... AT&SF? B&O? Sorry I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Indeed. B&O of course! I love the rails... Sadly, it was as a Radio Station Engineer (among other things). That was as close to Engineering as I really wanted to come and that, my dear Southern compatriot, was damn pretty far off! heh... But on to lovely topics like VTA. See below. Look around the arm base to see. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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