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Glen Newdick

Hersey 3 buy and Cornwall 2 compairison and advice.

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Good day my fellow audio friends,

 

I asked a couple weeks ago about buying a new set of Heresy 3's or wait for a Cornwall 2-3-4 most of you said wait so I passed on the deal I had for the Heresy 3's. since then I have stumbled into another very good deal on a new set of Heresy 3's that were miss delivered to my local dealer, I got them for almost dealer cost. So I bought them, I also have a friends set of 1988 Cornwall 2's in my house. 

 

I got the Heresy 3's for $1600 Canadian New in sealed boxes. that's $600 less then retail here in Canada. Reason I bought them was I figured I could sell them for little loss and I could try out the newer tweeter and midrange horn. So I have both the New ( about 100 hours on them now) Heresy 3's and an older set of Cornwall 2's in my house and I've been quite surprised at the sound of both. To put this in perspective I just sold my $9000 Living Voice speakers so I've got a very good reference to compare to.

 

I find the Cornwall 2's  really unlistenable, yes they have more bass then the Heresy 3's but really surprising is that the new Heresy is not that far behind the much larger Cornwall 2's in the bottom end. Were the new Heresy's out right tromp the older Cornwall's is in the midrange and high frequencies. The older Cornwall 2's have an annoying high frequency issue like S Sssss's have so much sibilance its not even close to any hifi speaker I've heard, I also find the midrange quite recessed in the older Cornwall 2's.  On the other hand the new tweeters and midrange drivers in the Heresy's are surprisingly good and detailed and not at all over the top like I expected. I'm really liking what they do in my room specially for the money invested. 

 

I've also thinking maybe the Cornwall may be too much speaker for my room and maybe the Forte 3 maybe a better choice for my room. 

 

Now the question.  I feel maybe the older Cornwall is maybe in need of some crossover love or other as I can't believe they are that loved and that flawed at the same time. in your experience do updated crossover parts solve the harsh and not very detailed tweeter and do they allow the midrange to be fuller (I'm aware of Crites)? If not then I don't think the older Cornwall is suited to me, if the newer Cornwall is much like the newer heresy then I feel this is going to be a stellar speaker same for the forte 3. Do you all find the newer versions of the Cornwall and Forte are closer to the newer Heresy or not? I'm not sure if they use similar tweeters and midrange horns or not. I also know the new Cornwall 4 and upcoming Forte 4 may be even better. I'm thinking a new set of Forte's maybe the sweet spot but I don't want to discount the new Cornwall just yet. La saclas are an option but I feel too large for my listening space...maybe but cost is a consideration. 

 

I do not listen at high volumes mid 60db's to low 80db most of the time its around 75db (condo type living) I do notice I do listen a little louder then I used to though must be the horn effect. The horns also do what I hoped by dispersing into my living space better then the cone drivers I've had in the past. I live in a loft that's all open with 18" ceilings so larger space to fill but the listening space is smaller compared to the room size. I sit about 11' from the speakers, but get good width for them.   

 

I run 300b based SET amps 8wpc. 

 

thanks for all your advice in advance cheers. 

 

glen 

 

 

 

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:01 AM, Glen Newdick said:

Good day my fellow audio friends,

 

I asked a couple weeks ago about buying a new set of Heresy 3's or wait for a Cornwall 2-3-4 most of you said wait so I passed on the deal I had for the Heresy 3's. since then I have stumbled into another very good deal on a new set of Heresy 3's that were miss delivered to my local dealer, I got them for almost dealer cost. So I bought them, I also have a friends set of 1988 Cornwall 2's in my house. 

 

I got the Heresy 3's for $1600 Canadian New in sealed boxes. that's $600 less then retail here in Canada. Reason I bought them was I figured I could sell them for little loss and I could try out the newer tweeter and midrange horn. So I have both the New ( about 100 hours on them now) Heresy 3's and an older set of Cornwall 2's in my house and I've been quite surprised at the sound of both. To put this in perspective I just sold my $9000 Living Voice speakers so I've got a very good reference to compare to.

 

I find the Cornwall 2's  really unlistenable, yes they have more bass then the Heresy 3's but really surprising is that the new Heresy is not that far behind the much larger Cornwall 2's in the bottom end. Were the new Heresy's out right tromp the older Cornwall's is in the midrange and high frequencies. The older Cornwall 2's have an annoying high frequency issue like S Sssss's have so much sibilance its not even close to any hifi speaker I've heard, I also find the midrange quite recessed in the older Cornwall 2's.  On the other hand the new tweeters and midrange drivers in the Heresy's are surprisingly good and detailed and not at all over the top like I expected. I'm really liking what they do in my room specially for the money invested. 

 

I've also thinking maybe the Cornwall may be too much speaker for my room and maybe the Forte 3 maybe a better choice for my room. 

 

Now the question.  I feel maybe the older Cornwall is maybe in need of some crossover love or other as I can't believe they are that loved and that flawed at the same time. in your experience do updated crossover parts solve the harsh and not very detailed tweeter and do they allow the midrange to be fuller (I'm aware of Crites)? If not then I don't think the older Cornwall is suited to me, if the newer Cornwall is much like the newer heresy then I feel this is going to be a stellar speaker same for the forte 3. Do you all find the newer versions of the Cornwall and Forte are closer to the newer Heresy or not? I'm not sure if they use similar tweeters and midrange horns or not. I also know the new Cornwall 4 and upcoming Forte 4 may be even better. I'm thinking a new set of Forte's maybe the sweet spot but I don't want to discount the new Cornwall just yet. La saclas are an option but I feel too large for my listening space...maybe but cost is a consideration. 

 

I do not listen at high volumes mid 60db's to low 80db most of the time its around 75db (condo type living) I do notice I do listen a little louder then I used to though must be the horn effect. The horns also do what I hoped by dispersing into my living space better then the cone drivers I've had in the past. I live in a loft that's all open with 18" ceilings so larger space to fill but the listening space is smaller compared to the room size. I sit about 11' from the speakers, but get good width for them.   

 

I run 300b based SET amps 8wpc. 

 

thanks for all your advice in advance cheers. 

 

glen 

Hi Glen, with the amp and the volume you play your music at, I think you may prefer the Cornwall 1 over the 2. The 1 uses a first order crossover which works very well when playing at lower volumes. Also the alnico K77 and K55V horns sound great in the 1's. I think that new capacitors in the old crossovers are a must. I put Jupiter VT capacitors in my B1 crossovers for my Cornwall 1's. The cap upgrade brought the speakers back to life.

 

On 11/28/2019 at 11:01 AM, Glen Newdick said:

 

 

 

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Seriously, audition the new models of Cornwall IV and Heresy IV.

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Marvel, 

 

I intend to listen to them they are just too new yet to find in my area, yet anyway.  My only close dealer who stocks the heritage line is in Vancouver a full day's trip away with ferry's from Victoria where I am. so i'm doing some research first before I make the over night trip also to see if its even a path I want to pursue. That said i'm really liking the heresy 3's that's why i'm thinking of going up the line more. I have the other components to make the more expensive speakers shine, really wish I had the room for the K horns but I don't even La Scala's are possibly too large. This is my first endeavor it to horns in my system so its a discovery of new for me. I've owned all sorts of cone driver speakers some ESL's (ML"S) and open baffles over the years so I'm just getting used to the sound of the horns and really liking it so far. I think its the speed, immersive sound stage as your in the middle of it and the immediacy that got me. time will tell if its a long term love or love of the new. I do know there is a loss of some warmth that I may miss in time. 

 

I also have an opportunity to listen to a set of older La Scala's in my room, I feel they may be to large but the midrange is what got my ears perked with them. new La Scala's are a little pricy IMO though. 

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1 hour ago, Glen Newdick said:

Marvel, 

 

I intend to listen to them they are just too new yet to find in my area, yet anyway.  My only close dealer who stocks the heritage line is in Vancouver a full day's trip away with ferry's from Victoria where I am. so i'm doing some research first before I make the over night trip also to see if its even a path I want to pursue. That said i'm really liking the heresy 3's that's why i'm thinking of going up the line more. I have the other components to make the more expensive speakers shine, really wish I had the room for the K horns but I don't even La Scala's are possibly too large. This is my first endeavor it to horns in my system so its a discovery of new for me. I've owned all sorts of cone driver speakers some ESL's (ML"S) and open baffles over the years so I'm just getting used to the sound of the horns and really liking it so far. I think its the speed, immersive sound stage as your in the middle of it and the immediacy that got me. time will tell if its a long term love or love of the new. I do know there is a loss of some warmth that I may miss in time. 

 

I also have an opportunity to listen to a set of older La Scala's in my room, I feel they may be to large but the midrange is what got my ears perked with them. new La Scala's are a little pricy IMO though. 

Hi Glen, how does the heresy compare to your living voice speakers?

 

Greg

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You mentioned that the Heresy's aren't that far behind the Cornwall's on the bottom end, seems like something must be wrong with them, that's really hard to imagine.  

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Before giving up on the CWII’s try replacing the tweeter diaphragms with the current Ti version. You can buy them directly from Klipsch. They don’t cost much, less than $100 for the pair. Whole tweeter assemblies are also available if you don’t want to disassemble your current tweeters, they are like $100-110ea if I remember correctly? I had to buy one a while back...

 

If you want to test the waters before purchasing parts just remove the tweeters from your HIII’s and install them in the CWII’s.

 

There are other mods/updates you can do but in my experience the tweeter diaphragm is the biggest... if you don’t like them after trying it then you must just not like them

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