NOSValves Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Well messed around today and finally built one of the set of crossovers for a fellow forum member. With Als permission and totally free and will not do it for others !! Got the legal end out of the way. I figured it would be cheaper to build a set for someone else and try them and then dive in if I like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Here's the real crazy part IT ACTUALLY WORKS !!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 I was surprised too, but mine work great, even with my uneducated ears and damaged hearing I can hear the diff easily. It's cool. As far as forum members go I offered to build mobile homeless a pair of B's but never heard back from him. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 10, 2002 Author Share Posted November 10, 2002 Right now I'm running only one and it seems to be more subdued than my AL network but over all it really seems very similar. Its like it just took some of the effeciency away ? Anyone have any Idea what I should hear different with a ALK compared to the Klipsch AL ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Lord...where have you been? There have only been about 50 posts on the subject! Check the mildly related post by Erik still on this page (although his post is the Type AA Oil vs the Type AL). I have heard not one positive about the AL Network. I would opt for the Type AA with oils in a second based on what I have read. Later you can decide if it's worth going with the ALK version or trying film/foils over the vintage oils. kh ps - Nice work on the build, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 Tom, I dont remember you offering to ever actually build me a Type B crossover at all! Lordy. I thought you had been talking about the Type A/AA oils. I knew you didnt have CW and a I vaguely remember you asking me something about the oil caps or transformers. But still dont remember you offering anything of that nature. I must have been under the influence of nothing at the time... kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 NOS.. The build job on my netwroks looks like you did everything right. You should hear a big difference over the AL.. The efficiency shuldn't be any lower. I don't understand that. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 10, 2002 Share Posted November 10, 2002 "...must have been under the influence of nothing at the time." That's very funny Kelly. Caught me totally off gaurd. Al, Couldn't a loss of high frequency "edge" be interpeted as attenuation? BTW -- I sure wished you lived closer. I think you'd be impressed with the sound of the SET amps on my RF7's. Craig, nice job on those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 kh, here's the relevant part of the email from 10/24, it was sent to an earthlink.net address along with followup a couple weeks later: ********************************************** See if you can find some oil caps in the right values for the networks, we might be able to whip up a set of B's. The inductors aren't that expensive and neither are the transformers. The 3691 transformers he *(Al)* had built are about $25 apiece. If you could promote the caps somehow the inductors aren't that much and I've got the minor hardware already. I've got a real nice set of 77 Heresies I bought new, never abused, got the nice drivers, ideal test bed, easy to work with. See what you can come up with. ******************************************** I guess you're right, there's no outright offer here. Also, at that time I didn't know about the previous dealings you had with Al on the stuff. Anyway, that offer is still open if you're interested. I thought it was a good offer for you particularly because you could provide whatever caps you felt would be best in this situation. The reason I offered was because I was and am grateful for knowledge you've freely provided here. I would not have had the impetus to buy and fix up the Eico had you not been doing your thing here. Also, as an aside, the "re-issue the Eico" project still has life left in it. I know some guys in the sheet metal fab business, they see the chassis and and panels as trivially easy to produce. I bought a Sam's photofact when I was at AES getting caps, it de-mystified a lot of the circuitry and the parts list is handy too. I no longer have much doubt that the deal is do-able, but informed decisions have to be made about how much of the functionality and appearance would be worthwhile to duplicate as these would affect final cost. An HF-81 kit sold for about $70, translates to about $300 now. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Dean, It's had to quantify what "high frequency edge" is exactly! All this sort of this is perception and everybodies is different. The tweeter filter on my network, with the right parts (and he DID use the right parts) is only about 0.3 dB. There is certainly no loss of hegh frequency energy. If I had to make a guess, I think it might be the reduction of the 9 kHz return in the early K55V squawker driver. That's the one with the spring-loaded connections. I would suggest that you try a higher or lower squawker level setting. I have been setting them to X - 4 these days rather the 2 - 5. Maybe your just not ballanced up right yet. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Al, If I had to try to explain what I'm hearing it really seems like the bass is slightly cut off or less output. But in reality it may vary well be the mid driver. I will check it out further tonight and report back. I'm not sure what drivers are in my Lascalas. So what are the different combos on the transformer and what do they relate to on the Mid Driver Db wise ? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Craig, If you search the 2-channel board, you will see my post regarding the crossover comparison that Q-Man and I conducted. We compared a AL, AA, AK-3 and ALK using my La Scala's as the guinea pig. You should hear a dramatic difference between the AL and ALK (at least we did). It should sound much more open and detailed. There should also be more balance to the horns, with the tap settings for the squawker at 4 and X (default), which sets the attenuation at -6.2db. Here is Al's page on the tap settings... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well I'm now set at 5 and 2 . So X and 4 is where I should be ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 4 and X will give another 1.6db of attenuation. Really, it's just a matter of taste. Play around with them until you find what you like... Mike Edit: I just looked at your pictures (nice work, btw) and notice you don't have the other wire taps like AL's do. How hard is it to add them? Here is a shot of my ALK's with the multiple taps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Craig, The squawker level adjusts the amout of midrange you hear compared to the bass and treble. If the squawker is to loud, it will make you think there is a reduction in bass and treble. Mike has posted the first page of the isntruction literature I send out with each netwrok set. It should answer your question about the settings. Adding the other wires and plugs to the transformer is not hard, doing it is just BORING! It's my least favorite (and last) step in the job of building them! Mike, If you can, I would like to see a close up picture of the cable adapters you have on the input in the picture you posted. They look interesting. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 ---------------- On 11/11/2002 12:33:12 PM Al Klappenberger wrote: Mike, If you can, I would like to see a close up picture of the cable adapters you have on the input in the picture you posted. They look interesting. Al K. ---------------- Al, Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera. I can tell you that these mini-spade to banana adaptors are perfect for the individual that likes to use banana plugs for their speaker connectors. They are made by Philmore and the part number is 45-282G (figure 9 in the url)... http://www.cablesandconnectors.com/PIX/phi58.jpg They can be purchased cheaper at Jay-Tronics for 5.89/pair... http://www.jaytronics.com/connectors.htm The nice thing about them is the banana portion of the connector can be moved to the top or the side of the terminal, depending on how the spade is connected (top or side loading). BTW, these work great for the vintage amps, such as Eico, Scott, Fisher, etc... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Mike, I see now.. I thought they were maybe adaptors for larger spade lugs. Thanks, Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 11, 2002 Author Share Posted November 11, 2002 Well I now have finished the second unit and have it installed in my Lascalas. I first tried the 4 and X taps and found these to Hot. I have a very bright room. I lowered them to 5 and 2 . All I can say is the are indeed a big upgrade although I do feel they loose some effeciency. The detail is awesome and the sound field definitely grew. I also think the different setting on the transformer is a great feature !! Is there settings like this on the stock AL network ?? Al, What's the story with this AL networks mine have 3 transformers on them and various other parts is this normal for the AL network ?? They are huge !! My lascalas are industrial versions does this maybe make a difference ?? There has to be like 10 to 12 different parts on my AL networks which 3 are transformers there is one rather large can that I guess is a Electrolytic . I haven't actually removed my Networks yet to get a better look but they just seem real complicated for a normal factory setup. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 ---------------- On 11/11/2002 9:31:44 PM NOS440 wrote: Well I now have finished the second unit and have it installed in my Lascalas. I first tried the 4 and X taps and found these to Hot. I have a very bright room. I lowered them to 5 and 2. ---------------- Craig, Actually, you raised the volume of the squawker by setting it to 5 and 2 (-4.6 db). The 4 and X setting reduces it by 6.2 db. Regardless, whatever sounds good to your ears is all that matters. As for your AL networks, please post a picture so I can compare it to mine... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 12, 2002 Share Posted November 12, 2002 NOS, As Mike said.. The 5 - 2 setting is HOTER than x - 4. The confusion may be that making the squawker hoter will make the woofer and tweeter drop in comparison. What you are thinking is coming from the squawker may be actually coming from the tweeter! Raising the squawker may actually make it sould less harsh. Then again, maybe not! You just have to set it however you like it. On the AL network, only one of those "transformer" is really a transformer. The others are iron core inductors. I don't like them. They change value with level. I really doubt that the speaker efficiency has droped. The perception of that could be caused by a long list of factors. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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