junaidot Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 (edited) Sorry to dig up Old bones as regards Crossover Upgrade for RF-7 MK1 While it is great fun to read old topics; in fact it takes a true hobbyist to do that and I have as well done that. I have read so much, so much, that I have come to appreciate the work of people like Micromara, Deang, Yasnyi Sokol to mention but a few, I I didnt mention your name, its got nothing to do with how less important your contribution is. Yes I have read so much that I am confused (Specifically for MK1): which parts is best (very important) and why which steps it takes good samples of successful Upgrades My humble suggestion is if individual could please share their experience/projects of so many years in a Nut Shell if possible with photos of outcome. Not to become a lazy freeloader but rather to appreciate to the full the experience of others. There is no way one will not end up reading write ups because I can expect divers upgrade suggestion, which will of course trigger reading full discussions. Thanks all for your Generosity (Time and energy) Edited November 29, 2021 by junaidot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 @junaidot no need to worry about " old bones " as you said , the RF7 is a classics and still valuable enough for a upgrate. I will look for my documents tomorrow and then tell you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 29, 2021 Author Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, MicroMara said: @junaidot no need to worry about " old bones " as you said , the RF7 is a classics and still valuable enough for a upgrate. I will look for my documents tomorrow and then tell you more. 😀I actually meant it may look like the topic is over trashed!! You are so kind, I cant wait to receive every details I can collect, get those Caps, resistors, coils and the Cables and get down on it! Thx MicroMara. Where are u in Germany? I have been to Germany severally. I am so fond of the food; I must eat SCHNITZEL each time. 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 @Deang is the official RF-7 network guru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 8 hours ago, junaidot said: 😀I actually meant it may look like the topic is over trashed!! You are so kind, I cant wait to receive every details I can collect, get those Caps, resistors, coils and the Cables and get down on it! Thx MicroMara. Where are u in Germany? I have been to Germany severally. I am so fond of the food; I must eat SCHNITZEL each time. 😉 JA JA the Schnitzel Story ....😄 You´ve opend another thread here ...why ? Better to move that into the section " technical / modification " . Can be done by @Travis In Austin . Thanx Travis ! Well as you´re living in Den Haag ...I´m living in the " Ruhrgebiet ( Witten ) which is a 3 hours car drive distance from Den Haag, only a 3/4 hours drive from Venlo country border line. You wrote .... which parts is best (very important) and why 1.Jantzen Superior Cups Warm sound image Excellent reproduction of all acoustic instruments, clear as a violin. A little brighter than a Mundorf M-Cap silver / gold, which probably explains the good spatial information and the separation. A super audio cap with neutral sound 2. Jantzen Waxcoils Reels impregnated with natural wax have a more precise high-frequency reproduction and a full fundamental with increased detail, compared to normal reels and in the entire frequency range. In the bass range, the wax coils are in a class of their own. Full deep bass and full dynamic range, clean and clear sound. With their warm appearance, wax coils are, in my opinion, better than silver or silver-gold coils, which despite their merciless attention to detail look a bit cold. 3.German Jahn Silver-Mica are probably the best bypass capacitors. The sound pattern influence looks like this. The contours appear sharper and at the same time the last bit of hardness disappears. Everything sounds more harmonious. A must for every high and mid-range crossover. They are fom Germany . 4. Theel Audio resistors from Germany The exceptional resistance non-magnetic - induction-free.Precision technology Resistance wire made of non-magnetic special alloy. Conductive ceramic core, flame-retardant silicone sheathing. Completely induction-free thanks to Ayrton-Perry Winding. The resistance wire consists of two wires connected in parallel in the opposite direction of rotation. The residual inductance is therefore only made up of the connecting wires. 5. Mundorf M Resist Resistors With the MResist SUPREME you can hear even the finest details and spatial information that are lost with conventional resistors. Thanks to the elaborate bifilar construction from 1Ω,in which two wires are wound simultaneously on the high-temperature-resistant cement body, the inductance also always remains below 75μH. The MResist SUPREME series is also characterized by tonal neutrality and true-to-life music reproduction - thanks to a special, refractory, hand-applied potting compound that optimally fixes and stabilizes the resistor winding, thus protecting it from microphonics effects.To ensure that the sound experience is not impaired even under high load, we use a special copper-nickel alloy as conductor material, which is characterized by a positive and extremely low temperature coefficient of only 50ppm/°C. The use of exclusively non-magnetic materials and the welding of all contacts are further details that ensure that MResist SUPREME resistors are hardly perceptible acoustically. Number two and three will follow soon ........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, wuzzzer said: @Deang is the official RF-7 network guru. Yes, Deang is indeed! I've read so many things about him. But we cannot all pull on his jacket! I appreciate the help I've been receiving, so far, from MICROMARA as well! Edited November 30, 2021 by junaidot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 You wrote.......... which steps it takes You can't bridle a horse from behind. Crossover tuning is the last measure to be carried out . The RF7 has to be prepared for the crucial moddy.I would like to explain this to you using the following example: You buy a wonderful Mercedes, everything is perfect. Then there are tuning companies like "AMG" or "BRABUS". They don't just install an engine with more horsepower. No, the electronics, the shock absorbers, the chassis, the brake lines, the aerodynamics, the design,everything is readjusted, only then is the more powerful engine installed. Only then is everything perfectly coordinated and the vehicle is at a higher level and can perform its best performance.😇 1st phase> installation from new internal wiring AWG 14 ( monocristallin copper ) , new pure copper flat pins for the woofers and copper fabric strings for the horn drivers http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/"FS-301 mtr" http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/RS-2455452 http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/RS-2674300 https://viablue.de/de/stecker_ts_flexible_pins.php 2nd phase> Acoustic optimization of the cabinet with new damping material and damping the horn body with bitumes or something similar https://www.hellsound.de/contents/de/p2083.html 3rd. phase> Concat Treatment for all horn driver / Diafragma , as well as the woofers , after so may years of use, all connectore need to be cleand as well . http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectID=21909343 4th phase> Modication from the X-over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 You wrote .. good samples of successful Upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 26 minutes ago, MicroMara said: JA JA the Schnitzel Story ....😄 You´ve opend another thread here ...why ? Better to move that into the section " technical / modification " . Can be done by @Travis In Austin . Thanx Travis ! Well as you´re living in Den Haag ...I´m living in the " Ruhrgebiet ( Witten ) which is a 3 hours car drive distance from Den Haag, only a 3/4 hours drive from Venlo country border line. You wrote .... which parts is best (very important) and why 1.Jantzen Superior Cups Warm sound image Excellent reproduction of all acoustic instruments, clear as a violin. A little brighter than a Mundorf M-Cap silver / gold, which probably explains the good spatial information and the separation. A super audio cap with neutral sound 2. Jantzen Waxcoils Reels impregnated with natural wax have a more precise high-frequency reproduction and a full fundamental with increased detail, compared to normal reels and in the entire frequency range. In the bass range, the wax coils are in a class of their own. Full deep bass and full dynamic range, clean and clear sound. With their warm appearance, wax coils are, in my opinion, better than silver or silver-gold coils, which despite their merciless attention to detail look a bit cold. 3.German Jahn Silver-Mica are probably the best bypass capacitors. The sound pattern influence looks like this. The contours appear sharper and at the same time the last bit of hardness disappears. Everything sounds more harmonious. A must for every high and mid-range crossover. They are fom Germany . 4. Theel Audio resistors from Germany The exceptional resistance non-magnetic - induction-free.Precision technology Resistance wire made of non-magnetic special alloy. Conductive ceramic core, flame-retardant silicone sheathing. Completely induction-free thanks to Ayrton-Perry Winding. The resistance wire consists of two wires connected in parallel in the opposite direction of rotation. The residual inductance is therefore only made up of the connecting wires. 5. Mundorf M Resist Resistors With the MResist SUPREME you can hear even the finest details and spatial information that are lost with conventional resistors. Thanks to the elaborate bifilar construction from 1Ω,in which two wires are wound simultaneously on the high-temperature-resistant cement body, the inductance also always remains below 75μH. The MResist SUPREME series is also characterized by tonal neutrality and true-to-life music reproduction - thanks to a special, refractory, hand-applied potting compound that optimally fixes and stabilizes the resistor winding, thus protecting it from microphonics effects.To ensure that the sound experience is not impaired even under high load, we use a special copper-nickel alloy as conductor material, which is characterized by a positive and extremely low temperature coefficient of only 50ppm/°C. The use of exclusively non-magnetic materials and the welding of all contacts are further details that ensure that MResist SUPREME resistors are hardly perceptible acoustically. Number two and three will follow soon ........ Excellent! Thx: 2 Resistors mentioned (Thiel and Mundorf M) where does each belong? one for Tweet X-over and the other for Woofer/bass I guess. I believe one of the resistors should be 2uf instead of 10uf in other to partly address Horns harshness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 22 minutes ago, junaidot said: Yes, Deang is indeed! I've read so many things about him. But we cannot all pull on his jacket! I appreciate the help I've been receiving, so far, from MICROMARA as well! Of course @Deang is the " Guru " , and he´s still the N0. 1 , but as far as I know he has fished working ? Was mentined several times in the commuinity ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, junaidot said: Thel Audio in Germany ..I used their resisitors for the horn driver moddy only , all other resisitors I needed were from Mundorf http://www.thel-audioworld.de/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 20 minutes ago, MicroMara said: You wrote.......... which steps it takes You can't bridle a horse from behind. Crossover tuning is the last measure to be carried out . The RF7 has to be prepared for the crucial moddy.I would like to explain this to you using the following example: You buy a wonderful Mercedes, everything is perfect. Then there are tuning companies like "AMG" or "BRABUS". They don't just install an engine with more horsepower. No, the electronics, the shock absorbers, the chassis, the brake lines, the aerodynamics, the design,everything is readjusted, only then is the more powerful engine installed. Only then is everything perfectly coordinated and the vehicle is at a higher level and can perform its best performance.😇 1st phase> installation from new internal wiring AWG 14 ( monocristallin copper ) , new pure copper flat pins for the woofers and copper fabric strings for the horn drivers http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/"FS-301 mtr" http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/RS-2455452 http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61644966/Products/RS-2674300 https://viablue.de/de/stecker_ts_flexible_pins.php 2nd phase> Acoustic optimization of the cabinet with new damping material and damping the horn body with bitumes or something similar https://www.hellsound.de/contents/de/p2083.html 3rd. phase> Concat Treatment for all horn driver / Diafragma , as well as the woofers , after so may years of use, all connectore need to be cleand as well . http://www.hifizubehoer24.de/epages/61644966.sf/de_DE/?ObjectID=21909343 4th phase> Modication from the X-over Great to have a reasonably local vendor, Cheaper. Does Hifizubehoer24.de also sell the wax coil and Jantzen Caps, as well as Resistors? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, junaidot said: Great to have a reasonably local vendor, Cheaper. Does Hifizubehoer24.de also sell the wax coil and Jantzen Caps, as well as Resistors? NOOOOOOO , gonna submit my concats for the above mentioned soon 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 3 minutes ago, junaidot said: Great to have a reasonably local vendor, Cheaper. That´s up to you , think you get it in Holland for cheaper prices ....main thing is you´ve got the neccessary product information , no problem for me 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, MicroMara said: That´s up to you , think you get it in Holland for cheaper prices ....main thing is you´ve got the neccessary product information , no problem for me 🙂 I actually meant Eu Vendor!🙂. I actually prefer buying from Germany. More products availability Edited November 30, 2021 by junaidot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 My supplier for all Jantzen Caps & Wax Coils here in germany is .... https://xtreme-24.de/shop/public/Boxenbau/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 My supplier for Mundorf in germany is .... https://www.hellsound.de/contents/de/d31.html?start_page=1&searchFormSortBy=R-A&searchFormRootUse=A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicroMara Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 @junaidot..think you have enough information at the moment and you´ll be busy to get a structure in your project . I will log out now , have many other things to do , gonna log in again later in the evening .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 On no, I'm no guru, I have made a lot of mistakes though. People who don't know filter design should keep things as simple as possible. A little goes a long way, especially with these. I would leave the small coils on the high pass alone. Bigger wire isn't always better, and the high DCR of that wire is important for that part of the circuit. There is also some mutual inductance, which is measured and accounted for in the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junaidot Posted November 30, 2021 Author Share Posted November 30, 2021 4 hours ago, MicroMara said: @junaidot..think you have enough information at the moment and you´ll be busy to get a structure in your project . I will log out now , have many other things to do , gonna log in again later in the evening .. Sure, thx I will start gradually 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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