AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Maybe I'm on the wrong forum for this one, but I'll give it a shot. Is there a process for burning cd's, cd too cd on a pc (hey that ryhmes)to near original quality. I burn from dvd rom too cdr(original too copy) using Roxio cd creator. I've burned as low as 4x, and still dont get satisfactory a/b comparisons i.e. bass is somewhat loose and the copy seems less involving, vocals and instruments not as defined in presentation. Thankx Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornwaller Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Tom, 4 years ago when I was still chasing computer technology, I found that the cd/cdr/cdwr's then and even now made for data left something desired as far as music was concerned. Aside from the optical it seemed the differences were in the circutry. With all the emphasis in sampling rate and oversamplying this led to the dreaded data compression algo's that really don't do well for all the info involved in the subtile details of music. Therefore I have decided that the best way to go is with a unit made by someone that has some digital music experience--Yamaha, Sony, Phillips, etc. They all make units that once in the bay of a computer will do the best job of an all-in-one burn everything design. When you start thinking about laying down $400 for one of these, you might want to find a unit that is for music/dvd only and leave the data to NEC, Toshiba, or Teac. Cornwaller (or try to find a 1bit 1x in the scrap and try it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Im sorry, but there is no way that the data on the cd you are writing is any different than the data you are reading. If you are doing a copy from one cd to another, with no change in format (to mp3..etc) they both have the same digital bits. -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 MKL Are you suggesting that there is no difference in quality or sound between the master & copy, If so, why do I hear an audible difference? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Exactly that. The bits on one disc will be exactly like the bits on the other. Its a digital copy, so even one bit being difference would foul up some data. Audible difference? I really have no idea, as the only difference is one is a pressed copy, and one is maded by heating up a dye-layer. Perhaps your cd player has problems reading cdrs for some reason? (Which is hard to imagine, as a pressed copy and a cdr have the same bits on them, but they are written differently, so maybe due to age/design whatever you hapeen to have some sort of player that cant properly read cdrs, and it introduces problems.) Can you distinguish the difference in blind testing of a non-trivial amount? Or do you just feel there is a difference? -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 The first thing I would is dump Easy CD Creator it has to the worst burning software on earth !! There's a reason why they call it EASY !! Get you a copy of Nero , CDRwin or Clone CD. They won't be EASY but they will do a much better job. The poster above may have a valid point also about your CD player. I even think if using a good quality encoder and burning software going from MP3 to CD sound darn near if not completely the same as Original. After all MP3's compresses the data it doesn't remove any information what so ever so when it is uncompressed back into redbook it should be Identical even then. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 nope, mp3 is a lossy compression. It actually discards data when it is encoded, like jpeg image formats. You can never get this information back. -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 I can tell immediately, it is very suttle but defenitely noticeable. As for the cd player its really not a reading issue its more of a quality issue. Try it yourself make a copy and do an a/b comparison. Pay attention to bass & resolution. Tell me what you conclude. The music also isnt as involving, IMHO. Tom I would conclude software a strong possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 mkl, I would have a disagree with you completely. Compression by definition doesn't discard a thing it compacts it ! I realize listening to a MP3 indeed isn't playing all the music and it disregards a good portion but when the file is uncompressed it is Identical. Again both procedures have to be done with good quality software. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I burn copies of cds all the time. I CAN NOT tell the difference between a pressed cd and a cdr. I can tell the difference when a copy is converted to another format (ala mp3, ogg). This difference approaches 0 the higher the bitrate I encode. I find I lose the ability to regularly and correctly tell mp3s from cds at 256Kbps. -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 What type of software and hardware do you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Tom, I have compared many many times. I have every CD I own Backed up and play the backups. I can't tell a difference period mark. I also have backed them up with MP3's done at a high bit rate and burned them back to redbook . Can play all 3 no difference what so ever. I have seen many CD player that have trouble reading burned CD's they tend to take a long time to start playing skip very easy automobile CD player are the wosrt at this I have found using Nero and slowing the burn down to 4X relieves all the problems with the car players. I have a older sony deck that burned CD's give it fits period make. My Sony SCD-775 does a great job with any CD you put in it. Zero difference !! Craig PS what player do you have ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I use Pioneer DVD-115 drive to read the CD's Plextor 16X CDRW with burn proof set to 4X Nero Burning rom 5.5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 I have a Musical Fidelity a3 cd player, its got maybe 200 hours on it and is considered a good player. I'm going to do a A/B comparison on my second system which doubles as my HT system. If I still notice a difference I'm going to try different software. Thankx Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Depends what system I'm on (I'm a full fledged computer geek) Right now I have an HP cd writer, an Acer, a Plextor, and a Yamaha. On Windows I use Nero, DiscJuggler, EasyCdCreator, Fireburner or CDRWin. (I prefer nero and EasyCd in most cases) On Linux I usually use x-cdroast. Try using RAW write or DAO (Disc at Once) in your software to see if you feel it has a better sound. Personally I find no problem with EasyCdCreator. It has most of the advanced features as the others, you just have to look for some of them. -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Yea that should be a descent player I would think !! Weird maybe your ears are better than mine. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I can not hear a difference between a pressed CD and a burned disc to disc copy. I was curious so I just listened to some of the burned copies of CD's that I keep in my truck, I even burned a copy of a copy and I still can't tell a difference An MP3 does indeed discard information, once that info is gone it is never coming back. Between MP3's and CD's there is no comparison, I can hear the difference between a 256Kbps MP3 and a 192Kbps MP3 quite easily. The MP3 codec is based on the human hearing range, the first things to be cut out as you lower the bit rate are the frequencies at the upper and lower range of human hearing. Some of the first things to go are cymbals and other things in the high end while the bass typicaly becomes rather weak. I hate to say it but as far as sound quality goes, MP3's suck like a leech. btw, for burning CD's I use Ahead software's NERO burning ROM v.5 and an ASUS 48x CDR/RW drive. Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkl Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Just curious, can you hear the difference between a 256Kbps MP3 and the original cd? I find that the percentage of me picking which one is which is just to close to random. Although on certain songs I typically have a better chance (Mostly female vocals and piano). Overall though, I really have to strain to even trty. So I consideer 256 cd equivalent (on my system, with my ears) -mkl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted January 7, 2003 Author Share Posted January 7, 2003 On the contrary, I have a hearing impairment stemming from chronic childhood ear infections, left me with perferated ear drums, My ears are very sensitive (pain) to high frequencies & have a problem hearing the 2000 mhz range. Could the possibility of the cd player being of higher quality allow for the suttle differences being noticed? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invidiosulus Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Umm, I think you mean 2000 Hz. 2000 MHz would be 2,000,000,000 Hz. Nobody can hear that high. I think I can still hear up to about 18,500 Hz or 18.5KHz Peace, Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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