RF-7's, not so grand?

[michael hurd]

Well polobroker, if you would at least wait more than five minutes between each post, maybe you would have some answers in between. This board is a great place to find info, but depending on the time you post, your post will go unanswered. Your local dealer can help you out with the questions on the rx-v1. As far as I know, there is nobody that owns one. A lot of the people seem to be quite happy with the denon 2803 - 3803 and a few own the outlaw model 1050. You can ask for help on how to post pictures etc. I am sure that justin tx 16 will help you out in that regard. When we get more info, then we can help you out some more.

[Doug C]

The RF-7's do need to be placed out from the front wall if at all possible to sound their best. I know that having speakers placed inside wall units looks cool but it just kills capable speakers like these. Try standing in a small closet with someone else and having a conversation and you will get an idea of what enclosures do to a speakers sound.

Spending extra money for anything more than 20-40 watts to power the RF-7's is not necessary. I use a 2 watt/channel tube amp and have great bass and play the RF-7's at 90 dB regullarly with no strain.

Another thing I learned while slowly upgrading my system over the past 6-years was that I really did not know what real bass was supposed to sound like. Earlier systems I had created a lot of distortion and bass notes just blended together with no distinction. With my current set-up and RF-7's I can hear each string on the bass being plucked individually.

I have the front of my RF-7's about 5 feet from the wall behind them and this really does the trick. I know many room layouts don't allow this but you might want to pull them out and listen as an experiment. In my room I have the speakers placed about 16 inches from the side wall which is not ideal (side wall reflections are a problem). I installed sound panels on each side wall to absorb the first side wall reflection and this virtually eliminated that problem.

The other thing I found with the 7's is that they are very revealing. I had the RF-5's which sounded great in my system and upgraded to the 7's. The 7's did not sound as smooth on the high end. Found that due to their ability to reproduce greater detail they also exposed weaknesses with my CD player that were not apparent when using the RF-5's. The point being that depending on other system components, the RF-7's can sound great, average or bad.

Good Luck!

Doug C

[Strabo]

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On 1/22/2003 9:11:24 PM PoloBroker wrote:

As I read your comments, it appears to be the reciver that is the problem. Can you advise on the Yamaha RX-Z1?

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I don't have alot of experience with the RX-Z1 but I know someone that has it powering his KLF-20's and maybe I can get him to post here.

We just spend about 6 hours Sunday listening to his system. He had just hooked up a new MMF-7 and we were running some vinyl through it.

I was impressed with the Yamy, including the phone stage. Thought it sounded great. Better than the Denon 4802 that I had hooked up to my Forte's. It had plenty of low end so we didn't even use the sub. I'd suggest giving it a listen.

You should be able to find a retailer that sells both Yamaha and Klipsch to hear it on the RF-7's.

[Fish]

If you want a new speaker better than the rf7's,you need to raise your budget, a lot.I tried the def tech 3000tl's in my home,they sounded good,but I think I'll keep the 7's.I'm starting to think after you listen to klipsch long enough everything else sounds laid back.

[fabulousfrankie]

I think you'd gain more from adding a seperate amp(Parasound would be my choice). This can only be done if your receiver has preouts. If you do want a receiver to take advantage of newer sound formats, I'd choose Harman Kardon to mate w/Klipsch.

[manufanatic]

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On 1/24/2003 4:20:27 PM Fish wrote:

If you want a new speaker better than the rf7's,you need to raise your budget, a lot.I tried the def tech 3000tl's in my home,they sounded good,but I think I'll keep the 7's.I'm starting to think after you listen to klipsch long enough everything else sounds laid back.

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Yes the 3000tls are quite possibly the best hometheater speakers ever made at their price point of 2250 each

The RFs are quite nice too but not truly in the same league

[Invidiosulus]

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On 1/22/2003 8:59:27 PM PoloBroker wrote:

The basic rumble and terrific thump is just not there in the 7's (compared to the former JBL's) at all levels, the sub assists, but the research I have read seemed to make the RF7's an excellent thumper themselves. Others recommend a reciever switch or upgrade. It has to be the receiver or I am in need of an amp, or refund, and back to the old JBL's?

Thanks

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After christmas break I set my heresies back up in my apt and at first is sounded like they had no bass at all and the sound just didn't have any punch to it.

This went on for a day and a half before it occured to me to check the speaker polarity, DUH I had one of the speakers wired backwards so they were out of phase, a big difference that made.

Just a thought

Peace, Josh

[nutSS]

I am a audiofile (of the digital kind) with an input... for the good and bad points of your situation.

1. I am familiar with the dsp-3090, this is the last Yamaha flag before the DSP-A1. As I have the DSP-A1. The 3090's amps are good for what you have. Yamaha boasts true, clean power, with VERY little distortion or noise. This is a fact and has been proven with most of their upper dollar amps and processors. Now you put a clean amp to a very efficient speaker and you will hear any and all imperfections within the recording. This also can cause disharmony with alot of folks out there that swear by tube amps because it doesn't have the "warm sound to it" we all know that "warm" sound is distortion or noise that has been induced by the tubes, and anything other than the true signal being reproduced is not the true sound. i.e. noise or distortion. I won't beat a dead horse as this quandry is still fought today on which sounds better.

I am not sure of the wattage output of the 3090, but if the amp is not powerful enough, and you are looking for an upgrade the RX-Z1 is a good amp and does put out alot of power. if you are just looking for more power I would consider a straight 2 channel amp from yamaha like one of the MX series.

There are better amps out there but like they say, what's your budget? yamaha does a great job for the price and if you have to settle I would strongly recommend the RX-V1, it's last years flagship msrp $2999, but since it is last years you can find it for around $1000. As for processing power the RX-Z1 is not to much an improvent over the RX-V1. just a couple more bells and whistle in my book. check the yamaha web site for the differences, I've listened to both and the RX-Z1 did not warrent the price diff in my book.

2. Having any speaker in an enclosure of any kind is not good. you will sacrifice ALOT of your imaging in when playing anything when you do this. This would also null out the choice of def techs of any kind since they are bipolar speakers and placing a bipolar speaker in an encloser.... I wouldn't even what to hear the results.

3. The Klipsch speakers are speaker placement touchy. you will have to test and try to find the right placement for best imaging. A toe in from 3 to 15 degrees will also help depending on how far the speakers are from each other and from the listing spot. This is also why I deeply encourage you not to put the speakers in an enclosure.

4. For low end punch I would recommend a sub with the klipsch refenece line. they do not extend that well below 50Hz, If you like to listen to mostly music, Velodyne's HGS series make an excellent match up with the klipsch or any speaker in my book. This is a TRUE sub that is felt like a sub should be felt and not heard at low end extension. There is no boominess with this sub. just pure clean low end.... all the way down to 20Hz. This sub excellent with home theaters also but with the purity of this sub it would be a shame not to listen to your favorite reference music with it.

5. Last but not least this is YOUR system, you should be happy with your final decision since you are putting your hard earned cash on the table for it. if you don't like it take it back for something else.

hope I helped shed some light a a couple things for ya.

[cleandan]

Polo, I see you are looking for some input on the new Yamaha RXZ1. I have one as (STRABO) stated. I don't know what kind of rundown you are looking for so here goes. My current system is the Yamaha RXZ1, KLF-20 mains, KSW 200 sub, and six other Klipsch surround speakers. Since we are talking music and not surround sound I will leave these out, Pioneer Elite DV47A DVD, Music Hall MMF-7 turn table with the Eroica Goldring stylus. I do have some space limitations (have not won the lottery yet)so speaker placement is not ideal, but it is pretty good. I will start with the bad things, as the list is small. The touch screen remote is not very well though out. The "buttons" (remember touch screen)are very small, I need to use the edge of my fingernail to push some of them. The response time is slow because the remote goes into standby mode very quickly, supposedly to save batteries. STRABO said his similar Denon remote really used up batteries because it did not have this feature. This means there is about a one or two second delay before things happen. There are waaaaay to many screens to page through and about 1,000,000 options and settings, so to really figure this remote out, and set all your parameters you will spend some time. The replacement cost is also very high and we all know that remotes get lost, dropped, or broken sometimes. This one you will want to keep far out of harms way. The remote does have a nice back light feature for dark situations that works well. There are a few real buttons on the front, power, stby power, mute, volume up and down. THD is very very low. The built in phono stage is quite clean. There are enough hook ups on the back to install more pieces of equipment than any one person should own. The hook ups come in a variety of styles also, analog, digital, fiber optic, s-video, and a few others I can not think of right now. The unit is quite heavy (85lbs I think) so make sure your shelf is up to the task. After playing around, and getting things set for this unit, I am very happy with the sound. I have the tone controls set in the middle, or straight up flat. Without the sub the base is quite good, very tight. With the sub I can shake the walls, literally. The sweep tones on the Allen Parsons sound check disk are quite fun. The mids and highs are picture perfect without being overly bright. While listening to LP's (no sub)I think the reproduction is very real and lifelike. The amps are high enough in quality to point out deficiencies in other equipment, so now I need a better center channel. Anyone have a couple KLF-C7's for sale? There is enough clean power to fill most any house room to the breaking point. The RXZ1's amps are clean enough, however, that the high volumes don't get irritating or harsh, just pure, clean and LOUD as hell. Some songs are just meant to be played loud. To sum this up I would say Yamaha has way too many sound fields, the remote could use some real world usage upgrades, but overall this is a very capable unit that should make almost any listener happy. If you upgrade to this you will not be dissappointed. If you can still find a new RXV1, get that. It will provide almost equal performance at half the price. There HAS to be a few still in the box somewhere. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Good luck.