jmslaw Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 I have read that bypassing the crossovers in the Klipschorn, and using an outboard crossover, instead, yields significant improvements. Can anyone verify this? If so, how does one go about hooking up an outboard crossover to the Khorns? (I have the new, 2002 version) I have a Jadis tubed crossover that has one fixed crossover point. ( I think at 250hz) Will this unit serve as a replacement to the supplied crossovers? Thanks, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Jeff An external crossover is not a "direct replacement" to your internal crossovers. They are put in the system chain before your Amps. You then have amps directly connected to your speaker drivers. They usually have adjustable crossover points and allow you to tweek your crossover points based on your overall system. In Theory this is better because your lows need more power than your highs. You then have a beefy power amp to your woofer and a very clean low power amp to your highs. The high amp does not get bogged down with the peaks required to power your woofers. I think the last person here I talked to who was trying this was Dale Walker. Not sure where he is with it, he may be able to point you in a good direction. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Jeff, 250 Hz is to low to cross the woofer to the squawker. You could blow the squawker driver. It can't go that low partly becasue the squawker horn can't. The correct crossover is 400 Hz. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Jeff, You might know that many of us here would love to hear about your impressions of the 2002 K-Horn. Many of us here have versions which are almost 50 years old through 5 years old, and home builts. We've dwelled on the change of crossover designs from the factory and Al K.'s third party design. For a while in recent years, the K-Horns were out of production. Then the word came that production was renewed with a fresh crossover design. One factory rep said "They have been transformed." This probably referred to both the revised drivers and the crossover. Now you ask, how can I upgrade. Acchhaahhh. It is as if the new Ferrari came out and you're asking how to put on whitewalls. Or at least that you have just what we've been waiting to know more about. The most recent factory tweek. Now you're asking how to change it. Gulp. But getting back to your question. The terms you use regarding "outboard" crossovers, or bypassing, can be interpreted to refer to various modifications. These naturally refer to many designs of speakers. 1) Some hobbiests have thought there was some benefit to be had in taking the crossover circuitry out of any given speaker and sitting it on the floor. It doesn't quite figure, technically, but they do it. 2) Mr. Klipsch at one time noted that the inductor making up the crossover to the woofer could be bypassed and response was better. That suggestion is limited to the specific design. Not applicable here. 3) There is the technique of using a separate amplifier for each of the three drivers in a K-Horn. In that case, circuitry (active passovers) can be used as part of the amplifier, rather than the speaker, to divide up the frequencies delivered to the drivers. The benefits of this is debatable. However, they should mimic the qualities of the passive crossovers which they replace. (This is called "tri- amping". Tri-amping and active crossovers imply each other.) This latter point is why there are comments that the crossover point you mention is too low. Again, you have something we've just been cogitating about. We'd love to have your opinions, pictures, etc. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Jeff, I just realized that you have the newest Khorn. I would very much like to find out what was done to the crossovers. Are you able to draw a schematic of it or at least take close-up pictures of it? AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmslaw Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Thanks, everyone, for you replies. yes, these are the newest Klipschorns. I find them, overall, very satisfying. I am used to planars, such as Martin Logan and Magnepan, so, by comparison, the Khorns sound a bit opaque and do not give the hyper-detailed soundfield that the Logans do. To their credit, however, the Khorns do energize a room better than any planar I have had. They are very musical, but not as "accurate" as some other transducers I have used. Some may argue that real music does not present the wealth of micro-details that the Logans present, and, thus, the Khorns are the more musically truthful speaker. I think it is a matter of personal preference. I can tell you that I consider them a warm speaker, almost tube-like in tonality. Any talk of harshness or "honkiness" of horns does not apply to these speakers. The bass response in my room is very deep and tight. Flabby bass is my biggest pet peeve, and I am very satisfied with the extension and, more importantly, the definition of the bass. I have been asked to describe the crossover in detail. I have no idea how they differ from earlier designs, and I am not inclined to unseal them from the corners at this time to conduct a dissection. Unfortunately, Klipsch does not provide ANY guidance on the subject, nor do they even provide a manual with the new speakers. Regards, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 We all hope you become inclined in the near future. Want some help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Jeff, Klipsch will not provide schematic diagrams on any of it's current production speakers as a metter of policy. I need to know what they have done so that I don't sell somebody an incompatible crossover upgrade. Let us know where you live. I'm sure someone near you who knows about this sort of thing will be happy to come to your home and not just look at the network but help with any questions you might have as well. would be happy to do this myself if you live within driving distance of Maryland / Delaware. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Let me know if you do this on a weekend. I would love to hear them. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfred Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Hello, I am probably way behind in this reponse to you rgarding the "bypassing the crossover" issue. I have system that is set up using "tri-amplification". I use a DBX 234 active crossover fed from my Carver Pre-amp. I also use another looped sound processor in the system. The final output goes through the DBX xover and three outputs (hi mid low) goes to each individual amps and feeds the speakers. The beauty of this is that you can attenuate the three levels to your own requirements. Since I have a hi freq. deficiency in my hearing, I can adjust the sound to my wants & needs. Although I do not have the complete Klipschorn I do use the bass bins only. These were home made and have been tested and found to be as good as and meet the requirements of the factory units. They have the proper K33 drivers and the units are probably the best (& truest) thing in bass that I have ever heard. My mids are BOSE 802 and can handle anything that the bass doesn"t. Then I have a seperate set of tweeters that just sing out the highs. It may seem odd to some people, but this actually works quite well for the purposes intended. If I can be of any further help to you please drop me a line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istari Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 Oh MY GOD!!!! A hybrid Klipsch/Bose system!!!! PWK must be spinning in his grave!!!! Please undo this combo before PWK comes back from the afterlife to get ya!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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