Ou8thisSN Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 I have 3 questions, to which I have found neither answers online or on the AVS forums. 1. Does the Pioneer upconvert any video signal to component video, and output it at 100Mhz? The Denon definitely does that and lists it on their site. Pioneer doesnt. 2. Why is the Pioneer MSRP ($4500) more expensive than the Denon ($4300), when it offers less WPC RMS (130<170)? Are there anymore features on the Pioneer that arent available on the Denon? what am I missing? 3. Is the Pioneer considered a "warm" amplifier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manufanatic Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 ---------------- On 2/1/2003 4:15:18 PM Ou8thisSN wrote: I have 3 questions, to which I have found neither answers online or on the AVS forums. 1. Does the Pioneer upconvert any video signal to component video, and output it at 100Mhz? The Denon definitely does that and lists it on their site. Pioneer doesnt. 2. Why is the Pioneer MSRP ($4500) more expensive than the Denon ($4300), when it offers less WPC RMS (130<170)? Are there anymore features on the Pioneer that arent available on the Denon? what am I missing? 3. Is the Pioneer considered a "warm" amplifier? ---------------- 1. Yes the Pioneer upconverts to 100MHZ 2. Their are many reviews on the Pioneer do a search on google.com PIONEER 49TXI review. Their is a review on DOCDVD.COM on the 49TX comparing it to the 5800. Denon also reports the wpc somewhat questionably. 3. The Pioneer utilizes MOSFET which are considered warm. Now the real question is which can you get cheaper and covered under warranty isnt it. Both Receivers are currently at the top of the highend receiver realm (minus the BK 5700 rotels Mcintosh and the like) They are the best that japan can offer (yamaha RX-Z1 comes close) Right Now you can go to ecost they have the 49TX available for 1599 Then sometime late you can get it upgraded for firewire for 500 from pioneer. hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted February 1, 2003 Author Share Posted February 1, 2003 The Pioneer is cheaper everywhere I look, thats why i'm wondering which one I should get... thanks for the post though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudestmonkey Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 it just amazes me how people will pay thousands of dollars on high end piece of refurbed equipment with no warrenty from a b.s. company like ecost. Now the real questions is why dosent everyone buy from there local dealer?? spend a little extra $$ have a brand new piece of equipment, with a full warrenty. Plus i am sure that when you purchase the product online that you expect your local dealer to answer questions for you. well i gtg buy some refurbed underwear on ebay (it has a warrenty though) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manufanatic Posted February 1, 2003 Share Posted February 1, 2003 Do you want to get me on a rant here? I was just giving the lad some advice and where i had seen the pioneer for the lowest price. My post clearly stated that getting it with a warranty was important, having said that there is absolutely nothing wrong with using any means to get the product you want. I live in LOMPOC california and i have no true local Hi Fi dealer which sells either the Pioneer Elite or the Denon so I guess you feel i should drive upwards of 2 hours to demo this at a BM place and then pay tax and their excessive prices? You arent serious are you? I understand that if we dont support local hifi shops they will go away and we will all suffer but i am not willing to spend full MSRP on a 4000 unit when i can get it for half that. I also have no service centers within 100 miles so getting an extended warrenty through these so called unathorized dealers is a better deal because there are people only 6 miles away who will repair these and other units. Who is the real culprit here the consumer or the massive electronics company who somehow sells these items to UNauthorized dealers then complains when they are sold and wont honor their own warranty. I dont know all the particulars of how these websites get these items but they do and pioneer has to sell them to someone to get them there. anyways there is so much more important things going on today so RANT OVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjohnsonhp Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Ignoring the specific products in this thread, the idea that local dealers are only a little extra money seems open for debate...especially on some of these popular products that don't need a lot of hand-holding. I'm willing to pay a premium but when the delta gets to 30% and beyond I start to ask how much value am I getting. Who cares about a factory warranty if you can get a reputable/low hassle 5-year 3rd party warranty w/the product at a lower solution cost? Here are some of the things that lean me towards the dealers: * in-home trials w/o shipping fees (I know a person that tried 6 different brands of speakers before he let the return period end). If you take advantage of the 30-day return programs then that's value...Some folks just call their rep and ask for 2 or 3 CD/DVD players for example to be brought out before making final selection...of course these are usually bigger spenders than I. * if I have them come to my house and help with product selection and system design for free then I would want to support them in the hw purchase * if I wanted notable time calibrating and tuning the system during installation. * if I find that I need multiple pre & post sale conversations and I trust/value their consulting. The problem is that I usualy feel I should figure out a way to get by w/o these services and do more price shopping. The solution needs several products and is getting pretty expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Ou8, Your questions need a bit of clarification. 1. The Pioneer VSX49TXi upconverts S-video and composite to component. The highest definition signal today uses 37 MHz of bandwidth. The 100 MHz advertized is hype. Any THX certified receiver must pass all high definition signals without loss. Pioneer's upconvertion does not do 3:2 pulldown and deinterlacing; it should be done in your DVD ot TV. That is to say if an interlaced signal is input interlaced is ouput. 2. Pioneer offers automatic setup that includes 9 bands of equalization for room acoustic correction. It works very well, especially with Klipsch IMHO. The auto setup a/k/a MCACC adds alot of value. 3. The Pioneer and Denon flagships output about the same amount of power in independent tests. They weigh the same which implies very similar power supplies as well. THe Pioneers have been known to shut down at high volume levels if the speakers being driven have low impedance in the bass frequencies. My 49TXi has never shut down; my ears would bleed first. In my opinion, for most buyers the Pioneer's street price and features make it the better buy. The exception would be for people with 4 Ohm speakers in which case I would think twice before buying the Pioneer. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 The big Denon has more beefy amp,it can drive 4 Ohms loads with ease.I was driving all Dynaudio Contour speakers with my 5800.Pioneer's best cant drive the Contours to high levels,it gets dam hot. But for easy loads like Klipsch the Pioneer is a better choice.And yes it is warmer sounding,another BIG plus.Both are great receivers,the Pioneer is better built!The chassis is sturdier and the thick face plate and side panels are gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 Proudest, I once thought the same thing, support your local dealer. but when I started looking at the price difference between the Net and B&M I had to make a choice, Security warranty or more equiptment. Making my purchases from the new has saved me over $2500. That equates to more than a couple of dollars. I do hope my equipment out lives my warranty. After purchasing the equipment, furniture, building materials, and other odds and ends being able to save that kind of money helps the family budget. If I was single, no truck/minivan payments, no mortgage, or no kids in braces I probably would not have had to consider the .net purchases. $2500 is a still a lot of money even in todays dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted February 2, 2003 Author Share Posted February 2, 2003 ---------------- On 2/2/2003 3:16:46 AM MrMcGoo wrote: Ou8, Your questions need a bit of clarification. 1. The Pioneer VSX49TXi upconverts S-video and composite to component. The highest definition signal today uses 37 MHz of bandwidth. The 100 MHz advertized is hype. Any THX certified receiver must pass all high definition signals without loss. Pioneer's upconvertion does not do 3:2 pulldown and deinterlacing; it should be done in your DVD ot TV. That is to say if an interlaced signal is input interlaced is ouput. 2. Pioneer offers automatic setup that includes 9 bands of equalization for room acoustic correction. It works very well, especially with Klipsch IMHO. The auto setup a/k/a MCACC adds alot of value. 3. The Pioneer and Denon flagships output about the same amount of power in independent tests. They weigh the same which implies very similar power supplies as well. THe Pioneers have been known to shut down at high volume levels if the speakers being driven have low impedance in the bass frequencies. My 49TXi has never shut down; my ears would bleed first. In my opinion, for most buyers the Pioneer's street price and features make it the better buy. The exception would be for people with 4 Ohm speakers in which case I would think twice before buying the Pioneer. Bill ---------------- 1. Thanks for clearing that up! I thought I read somewhere that around 40mhz is the highest output possible for HDTV. Btw.. I'm considering a projector with (what i've heard) a pretty good scaler. So, I'm assuming it will convert composite and s-video to progressive anyway. The Pioneer didnt specifically list it on their site, as Denon did, and this is why I was asking. 2. I read about the MCACC, seems like a good feature, perhaps this is the price difference making the pioneer cost $4500, vs the Denon at $4300. 3. I see the Pioneer has a higher THD than the Denon at .09% vs .05%. is this of great concern? I'm thinking about driving Klipsch Reference Series 7 speakers anyway, so I dont think the ohm load is of specific concern to me. I did have one more concern though, I was thinking about getting 2 subwoofers. Do both these recievers accomodate 2 subwoofers? From the back panel picture, I saw the denon only accomodated 1 on the "pre-out" section, although it says "Output for sub in the EXT-1 In". Of course no pictures of the Pioneer are yet to be found anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strabo Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 The August 2002 Home Theater magazine did a head to head between the 5303 and the 49TX, not the TXi. It might be worth reading. In a nut shell on a 100 point scale they ranked the 5303 1 point higher in each Features and Performance but for some reason -1 point for Value. Given the difference of $100 list price I'm not sure how they could come to that conclusion if they thought the features/performance was better. But, who can explain reviewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 ---------------- On 2/2/2003 4:04:21 PM Ou8thisSN wrote: I did have one more concern though, I was thinking about getting 2 subwoofers. Do both these recievers accomodate 2 subwoofers? From the back panel picture, I saw the denon only accomodated 1 on the "pre-out" section, although it says "Output for sub in the EXT-1 In". Of course no pictures of the Pioneer are yet to be found anywhere. ---------------- I believe you would have no trouble connecting 2 subs to a single sub output using a y-adapter, so don't let that be a concern for you. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Ou8, The difference between .05% and .09% is not audible. The Pioneer is actually quieter at low wattage than the Denon. You would rarely go over 4 watts with Reference 7 speakers. I hear zero noise on my RF-7s unless the souce has noise. The amp does not add any noise, if set up properly. The 49TXi has two sub outs; no Y splitter would be needed. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou8thisSN Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 okay, thats good to know. Also I was wondering since if I was to consider the Denon, which puts out 170wpc max, if I could still use the RF3-IIs and RS7, both of which are rated at 150wrms, powered by the Denon and not incur damage? In this case, do I have to go with the Pioneer to ensure that there wont be any chance of damage to the RS7/RF3-IIs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 No problem with 170 wpc. I'm running 200wpc. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 I bought my Denon refurbished. Still runs like a champ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddvj Posted February 6, 2003 Share Posted February 6, 2003 Don't worry about overpowering the speakers with Denons "170 Watts". The MCACC is a very cool feature with the Pioneer. The Denon gives you the option to run 5.1/Multi-zone or 7.1, which the Pioneer doesn't. Pioneer gives you the option to Bi-Amp your front speakers if you are not running 7.1. I know the Pioneer gives you some cool options for multi-channel music if you are running 7.1, and I don't think the Denon does (for instance, you can run the surround back as your only rear speakers, in case you have bi-polar surrounds and direct radiating surround back, or you can have the Pioneer Matrix a surround back channel, which is pretty cool seeing as you are using Analog inputs). The Denon has a more flexible Crossover than the Pioneer. But I have always said Pioneer sounds better than Denon. That being said, I am going to upgrade from my Pioneer 45tx to the Denon 4802 in the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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