tgw323 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Anybody here have experience with their subs? They have good reviews,but I haven't seen the talk like SVS,Adire get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Hsu has many advocates at avsforum.com. Hsu definately belongs in the same category as SVS and Adire. The VTF2 is almost impossible to beat at its price point. The TN series are a good value, but I think the VTF3 is priced a little high (when compared to equivalent subs from SVS or Adire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 i have an older tn series hsu sub in my second system....the room is smaller and it does a great job! russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 The VTF-3 is a ridiculous bargain. If you ever heard one you would know. It easily competes with SVS PC+ and Dharman. I can't think of any other box subwoofer that has tested as well as the VTF-3 in it's price range. This sub is the real deal (plays lowwww and loud and very musical), and it's selling for something like $764 right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 I see it competing with the Dharman and SVS PCi but not the PC+. PC+ has too much of a power (twice the power), size (25-31 roughly same size, 20-39 is larger) and venting advantage (50% more vent area). And given that the Dharman is $599 and the PCi are $550, $600 and $650 I stand by my statment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Why do you even comment on Hsu subs when you have clearly never listened to any of them? Bring out the STAT sheet! 50% power is a utterly meaningless statement when comparing different amps. The Hsu's embarass other subwoofers with only a fraction of the rated power. Vent area is also impossible to compare like you say. The VTF-3 has more vent area than a 1220HO, and yet the 1220HO from Hsu hits harder than a VTF-3 at ultra low frequencies. The VTF-3 frequency response keeps up with the 1220HO though. A VTF-3 easily competes with a PC+, nuff said. That is not just my opinion, or me reading of a manufacturer STAT sheet. I know someone who owns both and he agrees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 I'm not saying the VTF3 isn't a great sub, I wouldn't complain if I had one. Which one produces the better quality bass I won't say (although I doubt you or I could actually tell them appart in a blind comparison both properly setup). But output wise, there is no way a VTF3 will outgun a PC+ (and if Nousaine ever gets around to both his numbers will proof that). If it can, everything I know about sub design has to go out the window. You can't cheat Hoffman's iron law. The sub with the larger enclosure, with more vent cross sectional area, with more Vd and more power will always produce more bass. The Dharman is so similar to the VTF3. Similarily capable driver, both have twin 3" flared ports, both are tuned to 22hz, both have 250W amps. But the Dharman is around 20L larger and is $160 cheaper ($250 at the VTF3's normal price). But you are right that power doesn't mean more bass (but a watt is a watt), you have to consider the rest of the variables listed above. Which is why my 250W Tempest (9ft^3 enclosure, 6" port and 0.5-1L more Vd) will easily take both the VTF3 of PC+ in output. Sounds exceptional too, which is a nice plus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 tgw - It always seems to start - There is a repetitive HSU gets no respect and is the best - those SVS, Velodyne, etc. folks are simple minded folks bent on marketing and don't come close to HSU specs, blah, blah, blah. A few words of wisdom - in this faceless world of internet advice, find folks that you can validate from your own experience are saying 'true' stuff. You will also find that these same folks have a very specific 'let your ears be your guide' tone in their messages and will offer very beneficial analysis - they also make their biases known so you can weight that in looking to the value of their comments. Enough preaching. As to HSU - yes, they make a darn good product and their price/value ratio is outstanding. Further, they tend to deliver on their promises and spend time to make sure you are satisfied with your purchase - that is outstanding when compared to many other retail folks. I have heard both the VTF 2 and 3. FWIW and IMHO - the VTF 2 is one of the best values around and they both are very fine performers. I have heard some glowing remarks (from sources I trust) on the tubes and when I was in the market for a sub, the good Dr. Hsu suggested a tube as a better alternative based on what I was looking to get from the loudspeaker. IMO the competition at this price point is SVS, HSU and DIY (making your own loudspeaker). You can really start splitting hairs, but either SVS or HSU will offer outstanding value, very good sound and an extraordinary focus on the customer. As for me - I went SVS 20-39pci and have not looked back with any regret. My price point was well under the VTF 3 and is an admirable performer that I prefer to the 3 (this is my ears only remember). I understand that I would be very much enamored if I had a chance to audition the HSU TN series as a comparative. Step up in price range and you will get inundated with good subs - Velodyne, Klipsch, HSU, SVS, etc. - that will really make your head spin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 14, 2003 Share Posted February 14, 2003 Blah blah blah the eternal HSU VS SVS Lets be real here SVS gives you more for the money,better drivers,better cabinets(finish here) and more output for your dollar. HSU is a close second,and its not a shame.Second in price performance. Adire is a player here but to date most are kits or more DIY oriented. What does HSU have to answer the SVS Ultra/SS? NOTHING What does HSU have to answer the SVS B4-Plus? A BIG NOTHING SVS winns HSU is a great choice in budget subs,SVS has a sub for any need you may have.The B4-Plus takes on supersubs,HSU has the so called $80000 sub using 18" drivers nobody here ever saw.A paper launch with a product existing on paper. SVS by KO Yes when one has a less limited budget there are many great subwoofers on the market,Velodyne HGS series,Sunfire Signature,Aerial SW12,Revel B15,Wilson Watch DOG,Contrabass ServoDrive and a few others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Isn't this the place for subwoofer BS? lmfao Dustin a VTF-2 at max output can outgun a Dharman. That is Thomas Nousaine who can tell you that! lmao. You do sound like a fan boy to me. As I said before, I know someone (this is a person, not a STAT sheet!!!) who has the VTF-3 and PC+ and he says they perform essentially the same. That alone makes the VTF-3 a ridiculous value at it's price point. SVS does not have better drivers, cabinets, components. That is fiction buddy. The only people who say that are the SVS fanboys who have no real experience with current Hsu products. Hsu completely custom makes his drivers and amps. He probably knows more about subwoofers than anyone in this thread combined too. Have you actually looked at a VTF-3? It is built like a friggin tank. The finish is certainly better than a water heater black. Well most people seem to think so What does Hsu have to answer for the Ultra or B4? Are you kidding me? loool How about 2 or 4 or 5 TN1220HO's and 3 Hsu amps, or 4 or 5 VTF-3's. Yeah, that would match up pretty well, and you could move them around to smooth out frequency response, or you could sell a couple because 2 TN1220HO's are more than enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 In max output mode the VTF2 is tuned to 32hz. In max output mode, the Dharman is tuned to 22hz. You can't just flip a VTF2 back and forth from max output mode to max extension mode (and even in max extension mode the VTF2 won't go lower than a Dharman in max output mode) during a movie rapidly. You have to decide, do you want output above 30hz comparable to a Dharman, or do you want to come closer to matching it's extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 That don't hold water boy. A little VTF-2 with it's 10 inch driver and 150 watt amp should have no business having more output with less distortion above 25Hz than a Dharman, no matter what the tune is! And yet it does! I wonder what that be telling us? The VTF-3 vs the VTF-2 has way more maximum output levels, while having way more extension too. The VTF-3 is flat to somewhere between 16Hz-20Hz. Freq resp I noted above that I know someone who owns both the VTF-3 and PC+. He says the performance of both is pretty much identical. That makes the VTF-3 a ridiculous bargain in my book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 James Pheele - I know someone that has had both a Miata and A BMW Z3 (with inline six) that claims the Miata is the better car. That simply makes it one person's opinion. I have had both cars. My Z3 is by far a better car for how I like to drive. This is also one person's opinion, albiet not second hand. The point - Neither 'opinion' is justification for a 'ridiculous' bargain. Further, it will not make these observations anything other than opinion just because it is repeated several times. As to the original question - IMHO HSU makes fine subs. I stand by the 'opinion' that the VFT 2 is an outstanding bargain. As to VFT 3 - I think there are better options. Well, now that felt OK - I really want to say more. The problem is how this moves so far away from subject - I caution all to listen to observations that ring true and don't get mired in the ramblings that tend to happen on this subject. TTFN- my last comment in this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 "No matter what the tune" If you don't understand this very simple concept of sub design and why it is very important to output this converstation is hopeless. With a 32hz tuning point the VTF2 will not be flat to below 20hz at higher output levels at all (there is a big difference between being flat with some boost to 20hz at 75dB and being flat to 20hz with some boost at over 100dB). If you get Nousaines 3rd octave results and average the 20hz to 50hz instead of the 25hz to 63hz the VTF2 will suddenly have a lower average than the Dharman (16-50 would widen the difference). Darn tune, how'd it do that. Hmm, I wonder why guys in car SPL competitions tune their subs so high and guys in sound quality competitions tune their subs so low. Why would they do that James, tune doesn't matter right? But the VTF2 is in a different price range and for that price range it is IMO the best option out there (next to DIY of course, but few people can actually DIY for various reasons). In the VTF3's price range, IMO there are equivalent options that cost less and better options that cost the same. This conversation is very reminant of conversations with BobA. He keeps flopping between the importance of lower output level flat frequency response and maximum output without reguard to frequency response (pluggin ports and modifing boosts has trade offs plain and simple, they will in the Dharman and the PC+ series as well). He also loves using max output and max extension modes as if they can be magically changed to give the sub the benefits of both modes without any trades offs. Quoting averaged max output from max output mode with the frequency response of max extension mode in the same sentence. Just like you are James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstanton8 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Here here!! (murmur, murmur, murmur....) Here here... You tell 'im, Dusty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 These fanboys just can't get it can they? hwatkins,,you must be confused if you think the VTF-2 is an option and the VTF-3 is not. That alone trumps your opinion as a valid opinion. The VTF-3 is much much better than a VTF-2. Two VTF-2's might not even match a VTF-3! lmao dustinB - are you just trying to make up some BS statements to support your argument? Are you a fanboy looking to be justified? You don't seem interested in telling me how a VTF-2 can outgun a Dharman by 3db's above 25Hz with less distortion? Well duh a Dharman will have more below 25Hz. Yet you change your argument to say that the VTF-2 should have been measured 16 to 50 cycles or 20 to 50 cycles instead of 25 to 60 cycles . What kind of BS is that? The Dharman will not have huge output at 16 and 20 cycles. It will have more than VTF-2 but it will be totally down from 25 or 30 cycle output. lool The VTF-3 rocks the VTF-2 at all frequencies! Response to as low as 16Hz for real! If a VTF-2 can outgun a Dharman by 3db's above 25Hz, the VTF-3 will rock even more while keeping output way way higher at lower cyles than VTF-2. A look at the VTF-3 driver will make people a believer. You can say whatever BS you want. As long as people know you haven't listened to a VTF-3, your opinion counts squat. lmao I know a guy who has both VTF-3 and PC+. He says they are esentially identical in performance. He has them in the same room side by side, not reading off some BS stat sheet without anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin B Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Ok James, I give. I'll take your hear say word over physics. Hsu isn't just good, it destroys all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Pheele Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Physics, if it were so easy, we would have physicists design our subs! I would love that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 a couple of the members posting in this thread reminded me of the attached file... please note: no offense intended to participants of the subject in the photo russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 James, Listen newbie,Dustin tried to explain to you the obvious but you still think your fiction is a fact. SVS uses superior woofer,the HSU woofers may be custom...custom cheapies Higher quality woofer(cast basket,stiffer cone),longer peak to peak,longer linear travel,more powerful motor structure. Moving more air the SVS can play louder down very low.The HSU linear travel is a distant second to SVS.And moving lots of air is what sub bass is all about. You call us SVS fanboys,fine.You are a hard core HSU lunatic,and anyone here can clearly see this. The HSU describes their cabinets as being GORGEOUS,gorgeous my posterior.Crap looking finish,if you want to see true built quality my Aerial SW12 EATS your trash can VTF3.In cabinet finish quality,internal bracing and driver and amp quality. And where is HSU's $80000 supersub? A paper product LOL The B4-Plus is real,and costs under $4000.HSU high end is pure fiction,as is their superiority. Now take your HSU fan talk to another forum I aint buying your BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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