rowooo Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Mdeneen.......Are you saying Alan Colmes lacks pompous and sternness? Let's not forget, while you simply dismiss all these news shows as being "transparently fake, uneducated, ill-informed etc." all these shows have people on called GUESTS representing many facets. I watch many news programs and enjoy the debate and the different aspects of philosophies. I find them entertaining and in some cases educational, surely more educational than Joe Millionare! As long as people don't become narrow-minded and mere mimics, I believe most of these shows can be insightful and informative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Flynn---Why compare Clinton's philandering with Bush's cocaine use, drunkenness, draft-dodging and affirmative action admission into Yale? Fact is that Clinton is far more the true Horatio Alger American success story than Bush is, a man born on third base who thinks he hit a home-run. Fact is that just about everybody has their sins and flaws and comparing them gets us nowhere. The only people who hate Clinton for his sins are those who hated him already and those of us who like his political views don't care how many strumpets sucked his d*ck. The obstruction of justice thing is a bunch of bullsh*t since nobody had any godd*m business asking him about his sex life. I maintain that when one is asked a question, the answer to the question being nobody's godd*m business, that one has the right to lie. The entire episode was about politics and not law or right and wrong. Also, despite your flourishing of a Corinthian helmet (are you trying to prove once again that the finest school in Michigan is indeed the one in Ann Arbor?) I perceive you as weak. But I won't attack you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I'm not going to say Bush is a angle here but..... Tom I can't believe you would find Clinton anything near rightous the dude is a Cad !!!!!!! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Craig----I'm a West Side Chicago Irish Democrat, I'm very involved in politics both in organization and in fundraising. So I think I have a pretty good grasp of politics as really practiced. And ALL I care about a man is what his politics are. I don't care care at all about his personal life, I only care that he backs what I want backed. What are you gonna do for me, that's all that counts. Now both parties practice politics this way but evidently the general public has the idea that morality and character ( and who can agree on what constitues proper morality and character) have something to do with this. But they don't, not unless someone is caught with his hand in the jar in which case he may become expendable as everybody pretends they're scandalized and disturbed. Now George Ryan was probably a crook but I think he was a good governor. Though a Republican he wasn't a Right-winger and he played ball with everybody. Everybody got a piece of the pie with George, the money was spread around from the big-shots who made the contracts to the regular people who repaved I-55 and rebuilt the bridges. Everybody gets a taste, that's good politics, that's REAL politics. And I'll never condemn or give-up a guy who has helped me, never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 "As long as people don't become narrow-minded and mere mimics, I believe many of these shows can be insightful and informative". Believe me I understand how these shows operate. "Rowooo, you need to see, hear, particapate in a debate, not a argumentative shouting match," Mdeneen, correct me if I'm wrong but were particapating in a debate right NOW right? By the way James Carville is your prime hero and you know it!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I don't think it's ever been proven that Bush actually snorted the coke. I heard he just had it lined up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Kind of like Clinton puffing it but not inhaling right LOL !!!! The heck with this soldering is way more fun then this off the wall subject !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Well Mark, you and I will never agree about Rush, but if you classify him as a "blowhard", you either have not listened to him, or his bombastic style coupled with views you cannot stand got in the way of you hearing him, and that's fine. If you said you got your news from C-Span, I would agree that is a great source of unbiased news. As to Fox News, they are gaining popularity because they do a great job of presenting both sides, something that ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN et al NEVER DID. They are actually responsible for a very subtle form of brain washing. I spent a year in Poland back in 1968 as a teenager, interested in politics even back then. I noticed that the people in Poland (at that time under your buddies' rule- I couldn't resist this! ) were better informed in the political realm than most people from the US. Why? Because most Poles knew that the news they were getting from the communist run radio and TV was total BS, so they turned to the BBC, VOA, Radio Free Europe etc and got a balanced picture. When you get the news from a Dan Rather, pay attention to what he says, how he frames the news and his subtle gestures...it's a subtle brain wash! They also saw someone like Jimmy Carter, through his dealings with the Ruskies, as very naive. He got taken in almost every deal with them! 1) They do NOT feature "debates". If you doubt this, you need to see, hear, participiate in a debate. These are shouting matches. Saddly at times, you're right. Fox has taken notice, and they try to curtail the argueing. I believe they just try to rush through too many things in too little time. THis is especially painful when either side is making a good argument. Painfully rude and anti-intellectual. Yes, sometimes rude, but not anti-intellectual. 2) The distinguised guests are just a long line of predictable incendiaries called on over and over and over to stir the same pot, or sell another book. William Bennet? Alexander Haig? James Carville?, Alan Simpson? Who on earth CARES what these dipweeds have to say? If you cannot recognize the intelligence of Bill Bennet and refer to him as a dipweed, then I, sir, must question your own intelligence. Many of those from the other side you might want to see have likely been invited, but are too scared to face tougher interviewers than they find on the rest of the...dare I say...Liberal friendly media. Listen to Bernanrd Golberg, himself a liberal, who was just being honest about what he has witnessed in that regard. 3) They are designed and serve the short attention span group - about 98% of the nation -and hence the famous, "We've got 10 seconds left sir, tell me, what SHOULD we do in the middle east?" Republicans and conservatives use to make great fun of the "Talking Head" shows on PBS or whatever. Boring. Like watching grass grow. This new genre - The Screaming Head - is what they came up with as their unique contribution to TV. Saddly, you are right here...errr, correct here. Most people don't even watch programs like this. They come home from work, dirty, tired and ready for a beer and sports. Yet, it's even hard for me to dedicate enough time to try and get both sides of the issues, and believe me...truth for me is more important than ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Mark, You really need to get the soldering Iron out and get your mind off this stuff !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Mark, I do not take these things personally and I enjoy the debate with you. We attempted a similar debate a few years ago on another forum, and the liberals (not that I am calling you a liberal, though your positions on some issues are, I don't think you belong lumped with the rest) got vicious and nasty to such a degree that we do not discuss politics there anymore. But each of your posts, though you are wrong (hee hee), causes me to think. I believe that the more Americans are motivated to think, the better off our country will be. I think that many Republicans are Republicans because for the most part, government needs to be as small as possible, though not as small as liberetarians would like it. Anything the government can do (except for the military, police, etc) the private sector can do better. I have a job that came about from the government not doing the best possible job delivering mail and parcels. UPS and Fedex and the rest were able to form very lucrative businesses because, let's face it, the government subsidizes post office sucked. 1) I am not a fundamentalist, and most of my Republican friends are not either. Yet I do recognize there is the reality of evil in this world. One can make the argument that the Left's religion is Socialism...try challenging some liberals (like I did on the other forum)! 3) So, Americans (in the main) aren't going to listen to long, complex issue discussions. They have no patience, they can't spend the time "getting into" the fine points. And, lastly, they are now among the world's least informed peoples of global perspective This is sad and true. There are some reasons for this. We have turned into a very productive society. There are benefits to this, like being able to get fine sounding stereo equipment and Klipsch speakers. But we do pay a heavy price for this...we work hard and have little time left to devote to our families. We are overtaxed and support a bloated government, this adds to the problem and all the other associated problems that arise with parents not devoting enough attention to their kids. And...Communism/Socialism HAS failed everywhere! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Craig, you're right...I need to go sniff some nice hot solder too! Maybe if I play human conductor to a few volts again I can change my hair style! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Andy---How can you say Socialism has failed everywhere? The Nordic peoples seem pretty satisfied with thier version of it, which is sorta semi-Socialism. In any case one can hardly finish the book on collectivism until The United States tries it, we can do anything. Well autocratic government worked in Russia for some time, longer than Communism did, do you advocate the return of the Tsar and nobility? Should we try it here? I mean because it worked so well for so long. In any case Socialists and Reds serve a useful purpose by stating a far-left position that one can compromise from to get some useful things done; you know, things like Unions, labor laws, workman's comp amd unemployment compensation, rights for minorities; the reforms that have forestalled revolution and social war and given our Nation it's long history of hanging together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Mark the "prodictivity vs everything else" is more of a "at what cost is it worth it?" argument ,and you did nibble the bait just a little! To me, Humanism is where the most people can live the best. Humanism, I believe, is where equal opportunity exists for all...not a redistribution (by the almighty goverment) of wealth or resources. It is the antithisis of socialism. TB...I'm all for unions, labor laws, etc. I strongly support the unionization of the company where I work. Why? You can say corporate greed demands an unfair amount from those of us working there and we have no protection. But even more than corporate greed, I fear beurocratic greed of big government...not many want to mention this greed. I grew up in your neck of the woods (near Lake St and Cicero) and remember all too well how Daily's old Democratic Machine worked there. My only problem with this as well as unions is the "what's in it for me" attitude without regard to what's best for the most. How are things in old Chi-Town? I wish I could show up for one of your horn club meetings after which we could discuss politics and visit some Irish and Polish pubs! BTW, I am not saying Russia should revert back to having a Czar, too many have suffered under that rule as well. How can I say Socialism failed? Why is it that most Socialist countries before the fall of the Soviet Empire had walls to keep people in? Why did many people loose their lives trying to cross those walls? Hitler was responsible for how many murders? 6 million Jews (half of which were Polish Jews), Another 3 million Poles (if not more), 9 million Ruskies? Stalin butchered even more than Hitler. Polpot. Castro. Mao. Name your leader. Name your murderer. Why is it that if Socialism is so great. governments murder by the millions in the name of it? And you say the religious are fanatics? As the infamous, now jailed James Trafficant (D) would say- "Beam me up Mr. Speaker!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Mark, Craig--I gave up soldering in favor of typing. I can tell your getting as good at typing and debating as you are with tube gear !!!!!! Cheers Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Craig, I would love to do the Vulcan mind meld with Mark and know what he knows about electronis...as long as I was guaranteed the other garbage in his mind didn't come with it! ....just kidding Mark! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 T Brennan, I could have went to Michigan; just too snobby and left wing for me. Clinton committed the CRIMES while in the White House. And he can no longer practice law because of it. So if it is OK for Clinton to wet his apettitite for little girls then the local high school principal can fondle cheerleaders? The head of state sets a chacter model for the country. Clinton lowered the perception of the presidency to be similar to the Socialist dolts in Europe. It is not OK to sleep around on your wife. EVER! Worse when you lie about it to everyone, and the elaborate cover up prevents you from doing the job you are paid to do. Clinton is just like Nixon;"the laws do not apply to me". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Audio Flynn, c'mon...Nixon at least had SOME honor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Thanks Andy I was beginning to think I was out on a limb in my thought process. The only way to honor the presidency was to resign. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Andy---You equate Socialism with Soviet style Communism and one is not neccesarily the other. For instance the limited form of Socialism practiced in countries in which the political system is democratic and the economic system largely Socialist. Britian was an example, indeed an example to such an extent that much of Britian's Socialism was voted away. Personally I favor Capitalism but with lots of social and economic controls on the b*stards. If unionization was easier in this country I'd be willing to give-up all social and economic controls over the Capitalists and rely on unions and the threat of unions to hold the Capitalists in check. Lake and Cicero? Thomas Aquinas? Did you go to Austin? I lived at Jackson and Kedzie and was baptized at Lady of Sorrows. Later at Cicero and Madison and then Austin and Madison. I went 2 years at St. Ignatius, long enough for the Jebbies to teach me logic and arguing skills, then 2 years at Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Flynn---For a high-school teacher to fondle his students is against the law, Clinton's getting a blow-job from an adult woman wasn't. Your comparison is silly. Sure it's OK to sleep around on your wife sometimes, it depends on the wife. And in any case it's none of your business. To expect a politician to set some kind of moral example is childish. Clinton's "crimes" were purely his personal business and had nothing to do with how he did his job. The whole smear was political and based on the inability of the Republicans to get any evidence of actual corruption on him. You oughta know that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.