Jabez Scratch Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 A bit of a newbie question, but I hear/read a lot about "reference" models for equipment and such. What does this mean (if anything)? Is it a standard of some sort? Please enlighten me. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 17, 2003 Share Posted March 17, 2003 If used seriously (rare) and accurately (rarer) it means a standard. It could be a standard of voltage that produces a desired output, i.e., a signal to noise ratio might be referenced to 2 volts input that would cause an amp to put out full power, or the point on the preamp's volume control that provides 0 gain. In practice it is an advertizing ploy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 Ah Johnny me lad you've become a cynic ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted March 18, 2003 Share Posted March 18, 2003 I think what John's saying is that in most common use, "reference" refers to whatever system the reviewer owns that he happens to think is the best thing he's ever heard -- totally subjective. And that becomes the "standard" by which they measure other stuff that they get to review. DD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted March 19, 2003 Share Posted March 19, 2003 John's probably closer to the truth than I am, but as it what explained to me, When a manufacturer created a "Reference" product, they made it the best they could, whout much regard for cost. Then they start taking shortcuts for price points, all the while trying to maintain the sound of the "reference". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwood forest Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 The Klipsch Reference Series is the best that Klipsch has to offer? It's the standard by which Klipsch measures all of it's speakers? Give me a break! The Heritage Series (Khorn, etc.)runs rings around the Reference Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 - When used scientifically: it can be an arbitrary known point to compare other points (eg: freezing point of water is the reference point for Celsius ---> 0o Celsius, and all other temperatures are compared back to it... room temp 20oC ) - When used by an audio equipment reviewer: it can be an arbitrary known piece of equipment to compare other equipment. eg: the Velodyne HGS-15 can be the reference sub ---> and all other subs are compared back to it (Flatter, boomy, faster, louder....) but you can also use a KSW-15 because its typical 500$ sub (like http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html did... - When used as part of the name of audio equipment ---> : it can be an arbitrary marketing ploy, as it does not guarantee any minimum performance point (unlike THX, etc...) - I used my 10year old Tercel as a reference car when I went shopping for a replacement... ;-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Since everyone gave good answers I'll add my own. Reference means to me that something is the Best of THEEEEEE Best of the Best. AND to use your Visa card to pay your Discover card to pay your Master card to pay your American Express card to pay for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Harris Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I think "Formica" actually hit it. Although when used in audio parlance, it has taken on the meaning of something that is of the highest quality or of a high standard. And, we commonly use the word as a noun, in that sense. But, the word used as an adjective means "something that is used or can be used as a reference or something that constitutes a standard for measuring, comparing or constructing." I don't think that last definition really implies that the referent (that to which things are compared, noun) is necessarily of a particular quality.....just my two cents..... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 Formica and Dave are correct and Im not going to reiterate what they said. The manufacturers of some audio/video products have been using the word Reference as a connotation of an upper quality product within their own product lines. In the real world a Reference Standard is used for comparison purposes in qualitative analysis and thus a product that is equal to the Reference Standard by no means makes it superior in any way depending on the specifications of the Standard .In other words, unless a product meets all the criteria of the Reference Standard completely, even though the characteristics of the product being tested exceeds the specifications of the Reference Standard, then it is Not truly a reference. For example, after analysis, a products test results may show it exceeds the reference specifications in the critical areas that define the product by ten fold and it may then be qualitatively labeled as Reference 10 X. The same would apply if the products test numbers were half the values of the Reference Standard and may be labeled Reference 0.5 X. Both products are NOT Reference but have been assigned values based on comparison to a known Standard that is accepted by the majority of manufacturers in the industry or within a company for quality control purposes as THE Reference Standard. Now who and by what means are these Standards being defined as Reference? Ahhhhhhh. Thats where the problems arise when trying to convey to the consumer what the true quality of a particular product is when comparing them to different manufacturers specifications that are tested against standards that have been established by each manufacturer as THEIR in house standard that they use to manufacture THEIR products. What the TRUE quality of the product IS will fall between WHO is trying to convey the information to the consumer AND what is generally recognized by a majority of manufacturers, in a specific category of products, as a Reference Standard for their particular industry. Labeling a product as being a Standard in an industry is not a clear definition of its quality unless the integrity of the Reference Standard used to analyze it is beyond reproach and is accepted as THE STANDARD by a majority of manufacturers of these products or a governmental agency in the particular country where they are produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 The reference system is in the parsonage. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Not always true. As far as infinity car systems go, their refrence line is their cheap base line and the high end line is the kappa series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markw Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 In response to an earlier post, I have not really heard the Klipsch's reference line, so I cannot comment. But I would agree - if it were up to me - I'd make the Klipschhorn the "reference" In infinity home systems, the reference is the IRS (Infinity Reference Standard) My boss has a set of Kappa 9's and would kill for the IRS's http://www.hometheaterforum.com/bbs/equipment/28981.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 It can also simply be a thing used as a baseline. If being used in the context of a measuring stick, Klipsch may simply have just been issuing a challenge to all the wanna-be 'reference' speakers on the market -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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